1 00:00:06,506 --> 00:00:09,441 I never was a captive of other people's ideas about me. 2 00:00:10,844 --> 00:00:12,607 Whatever they thought, it didn't matter to me. 3 00:00:12,879 --> 00:00:15,541 I did what I wanted to, and I didn't care. 4 00:00:16,516 --> 00:00:17,881 I've been like that all my life 5 00:00:18,018 --> 00:00:19,918 and it's saved me a lot of trouble. 6 00:00:20,854 --> 00:00:22,014 Even when it came to writing music, 7 00:00:22,155 --> 00:00:23,622 I didn't care what people thought. 8 00:00:31,331 --> 00:00:33,891 You know. There's a lot of music in the world. 9 00:00:34,034 --> 00:00:35,331 You don't have to listen to mine. 10 00:00:35,468 --> 00:00:38,096 There's Mozart, there's the Beatles. 11 00:00:38,571 --> 00:00:39,970 Listen to something else. 12 00:00:40,407 --> 00:00:41,669 You don't have to listen to this. 13 00:00:42,108 --> 00:00:42,767 You have my blessings. 14 00:00:42,909 --> 00:00:45,139 Go out and listen to something else, I don't care. 15 00:01:38,998 --> 00:01:41,967 There are some days you can't open the door. 16 00:01:43,503 --> 00:01:46,870 Philip hates to throw things out 17 00:01:47,006 --> 00:01:49,133 and especially things that are given to him. 18 00:01:49,542 --> 00:01:52,636 People give him pictures and books, 19 00:01:53,513 --> 00:01:56,573 paraphernalia awful stuff sometimes. 20 00:01:56,716 --> 00:01:58,183 Sometimes it's very sweet, 21 00:01:58,318 --> 00:02:00,548 but we're not allowed to throw it out. 22 00:02:00,687 --> 00:02:01,654 So, when he's out of town, 23 00:02:01,788 --> 00:02:05,724 sometimes I sneak in here and I get rid of stuff. 24 00:02:05,992 --> 00:02:07,516 But, I don't have to do that today. 25 00:02:09,929 --> 00:02:13,160 This is very typical top of the piano. 26 00:02:13,399 --> 00:02:14,297 He keeps a cloth on it, 27 00:02:14,434 --> 00:02:16,732 which is very nice for this poor Baldwin. 28 00:02:17,570 --> 00:02:19,299 When he's done with an opera or 29 00:02:19,439 --> 00:02:22,408 a symphony he will come and clear everything off. 30 00:02:22,775 --> 00:02:25,335 And it lasts for about three days. 31 00:02:26,312 --> 00:02:29,008 He's working on a symphony right now and every once in a while 32 00:02:29,149 --> 00:02:30,810 he'll come in here like a madman and say, 33 00:02:30,950 --> 00:02:32,417 "l can't find a page." 34 00:02:32,852 --> 00:02:34,649 And, I think, well of course you can't find a page!. 35 00:02:34,787 --> 00:02:36,550 It's amazing you find anything in here!. 36 00:02:36,990 --> 00:02:42,155 Oh, this is typical Philip decoration. 37 00:02:42,295 --> 00:02:45,787 This is an Allen Ginsberg quote, 38 00:02:45,932 --> 00:02:48,765 and he and Allen were very, very close friends. 39 00:02:49,235 --> 00:02:51,601 These are just personal photographs. 40 00:02:51,738 --> 00:02:54,468 This is Gelek Rimpoche, 41 00:02:55,275 --> 00:02:57,766 one of Philip's teachers a beautiful man. 42 00:02:58,545 --> 00:03:00,604 I hope you'll meet him. I'm sure you will. 43 00:03:00,747 --> 00:03:01,406 A very nice guy. 44 00:03:01,548 --> 00:03:05,109 The Dalai Lama, of course. 45 00:03:05,251 --> 00:03:07,116 Here's Philip with the Dalai Lama. 46 00:03:09,422 --> 00:03:11,014 Frogs we got in Mexico. 47 00:03:11,157 --> 00:03:12,920 He collects little bands. 48 00:03:13,226 --> 00:03:14,784 If you look around the house in the bathrooms 49 00:03:14,928 --> 00:03:18,295 and things you'll find little bug bands and frog bands. 50 00:03:18,565 --> 00:03:20,897 He hates overhead lighting, which is kind of embarrassing 51 00:03:21,034 --> 00:03:24,367 because we have live wires sticking out of our ceilings everywhere. 52 00:03:24,671 --> 00:03:26,298 He won't let me throw lamps out either. 53 00:03:26,439 --> 00:03:27,531 The more the merrier. 54 00:03:28,441 --> 00:03:30,602 These are all scores, but not originals. 55 00:03:30,743 --> 00:03:33,735 The originals are kept in an archive space, 56 00:03:34,013 --> 00:03:36,607 but these are the first copy after 57 00:03:36,749 --> 00:03:38,649 the original scores of everything. 58 00:03:38,785 --> 00:03:42,744 I believe his entire library should be represented in here. 59 00:03:44,457 --> 00:03:47,358 I hope we never have a fire in this house. 60 00:03:49,062 --> 00:03:50,051 There you have it! 61 00:04:01,774 --> 00:04:03,537 You're getting a very quiet morning. 62 00:04:04,744 --> 00:04:06,143 I'm very impressed! 63 00:04:06,279 --> 00:04:09,544 It's not typical. 64 00:04:10,049 --> 00:04:11,209 What time are you starting work today? 65 00:04:11,751 --> 00:04:13,514 Around Eight, in ten minutes. 66 00:04:13,653 --> 00:04:15,917 Somebody loves your pancakes over here. 67 00:04:17,257 --> 00:04:19,020 OK boys, I'm going to work now. 68 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:42,107 For me, whenever I write, 69 00:04:42,248 --> 00:04:44,512 whether it's now or 30 years ago, 70 00:04:44,717 --> 00:04:46,912 there's always a feeling that I have no idea what to do. 71 00:04:50,189 --> 00:04:52,589 That was true when I began and it's true now. 72 00:04:54,027 --> 00:04:55,187 I'm writing "Symphony No. 8" 73 00:04:55,328 --> 00:04:57,694 and I've no idea where it's going. 74 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:02,963 I'm much more spontaneous and intuitive 75 00:05:03,102 --> 00:05:05,093 about writing now than I used to be. 76 00:05:08,107 --> 00:05:10,166 I learned a lot of that from Allen Ginsberg. 77 00:05:10,743 --> 00:05:13,268 He always used to say:. "First thought, best thought." 78 00:05:16,482 --> 00:05:17,414 Here we go. 79 00:05:18,484 --> 00:05:18,950 We play a game called 80 00:05:19,085 --> 00:05:20,814 "Here he comes and there he goes". 81 00:05:39,972 --> 00:05:42,634 I'm going over the beginning of this piece 82 00:05:42,775 --> 00:05:44,902 and I'm just working on some of the orchestrations. 83 00:05:45,044 --> 00:05:48,138 I finished the first movement of "Symphony No. 8" 84 00:05:48,281 --> 00:05:51,478 so, now I'll have to go back and look at the beginning again, 85 00:05:51,617 --> 00:05:53,016 and so I'm just considering 86 00:05:53,152 --> 00:05:56,553 some orchestration ideas to go with it. 87 00:05:56,689 --> 00:05:58,680 Shall I talk you through it a little bit? 88 00:06:01,327 --> 00:06:02,487 These are strings. 89 00:06:03,229 --> 00:06:04,491 These are all the strings. 90 00:06:08,401 --> 00:06:09,333 And that one there. 91 00:06:11,003 --> 00:06:15,463 And this would be the trumpets and the winds. 92 00:06:15,608 --> 00:06:17,098 And maybe the xylophones. 93 00:06:17,243 --> 00:06:18,267 So, you'll hear. 94 00:06:20,847 --> 00:06:24,339 First violins, second violins, violas, cellos 95 00:06:24,484 --> 00:06:26,452 and the double bases are down there. 96 00:06:32,959 --> 00:06:33,823 You get the idea? 97 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:34,858 Yes! 98 00:06:35,828 --> 00:06:36,522 I don't know if you can possibly get the idea! 99 00:06:36,662 --> 00:06:40,098 I barely get the idea myself, but I try to! 100 00:06:59,385 --> 00:07:00,147 Hi Chuck. 101 00:07:28,448 --> 00:07:33,511 When we were coming up in the '60s, I think, we were hell bent to not have 102 00:07:33,686 --> 00:07:35,051 Anything to do with anything. 103 00:07:35,188 --> 00:07:36,951 -With anything... -That's right. 104 00:07:37,089 --> 00:07:39,319 No one should listen to your music 105 00:07:39,459 --> 00:07:40,892 and think of another composer. 106 00:07:41,027 --> 00:07:42,551 And no one should look at my paintings 107 00:07:42,695 --> 00:07:43,855 and think of another artist. 108 00:07:44,464 --> 00:07:49,060 We, sort of, all climbed out of the primordial ooze together. 109 00:07:49,202 --> 00:07:53,161 At the same time and, sort of, lumbered on shore. 110 00:07:53,306 --> 00:07:56,366 Changing from amphibians... 111 00:07:56,609 --> 00:08:00,272 But so much was in that ooze. 112 00:08:01,347 --> 00:08:04,578 The New York art world had been around the Village, 113 00:08:04,884 --> 00:08:07,512 but that property already belonged to other people. 114 00:08:07,653 --> 00:08:11,851 So. we started colonizing what was to become SoHo. 115 00:08:11,991 --> 00:08:15,893 SoHo wasn't named SoHo until well into the '70s. 116 00:08:16,229 --> 00:08:17,856 No one was expected to live there. 117 00:08:17,997 --> 00:08:20,295 In fact, before it was SoHo, 118 00:08:20,433 --> 00:08:23,630 the fire department called it "Hells Hundred Acres" 119 00:08:23,803 --> 00:08:28,069 because it was nothing but rags and rats and rats and rags. 120 00:08:31,210 --> 00:08:33,405 When Philip and I came back from Paris, 121 00:08:33,546 --> 00:08:38,574 we rented a seedy rooming house on 122 00:08:38,718 --> 00:08:41,516 Ninth Avenue and twenty-third. 123 00:08:41,854 --> 00:08:44,789 It was two floors for seventy-five dollars. 124 00:08:46,492 --> 00:08:48,483 It was a lot of fun. 125 00:08:49,161 --> 00:08:51,959 It was also hard because we were very poor. 126 00:08:52,565 --> 00:08:54,533 Very!. Very poor. 127 00:08:56,269 --> 00:08:58,260 But unbelievable!. 128 00:08:58,471 --> 00:09:00,496 It was an unbelievable art scene. 129 00:09:01,307 --> 00:09:04,743 I don't know if there's ever going to be a period like that. 130 00:09:05,711 --> 00:09:07,338 You could do anything. 131 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:10,014 One could do anything. 132 00:09:10,683 --> 00:09:12,412 I'm going to do a piece called 133 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:18,820 "1 +1 ", which I've never done before, 134 00:09:18,958 --> 00:09:21,756 though I made the piece about four or five years ago. 135 00:09:21,894 --> 00:09:23,828 I thought this was a good chance to do it. 136 00:09:30,269 --> 00:09:30,894 The things I was thinking 137 00:09:31,037 --> 00:09:32,368 about had nothing to do with minimalism. 138 00:09:32,505 --> 00:09:34,473 It had to do with structure and content. 139 00:09:34,607 --> 00:09:36,700 The people who were involved 140 00:09:36,842 --> 00:09:38,070 with this new language would 141 00:09:38,210 --> 00:09:39,541 never have called it that. 142 00:09:40,379 --> 00:09:43,177 It was a journalistic shorthand for a movement. 143 00:09:45,484 --> 00:09:47,714 Chuck was beginning a series of portraits. 144 00:09:48,154 --> 00:09:50,850 And the idea, if I remember -tell me if I'm wrong about this 145 00:09:50,990 --> 00:09:52,617 -instead of doing portraits of famous people, 146 00:09:52,758 --> 00:09:53,747 Iike Rembrandt did, 147 00:09:53,893 --> 00:09:55,827 he was doing portraits of anonymous people. 148 00:09:55,962 --> 00:09:57,259 People that no one knew. 149 00:09:57,597 --> 00:09:59,064 The day and night,so... 150 00:09:59,198 --> 00:10:01,462 He rounded up all these people to come 151 00:10:01,601 --> 00:10:03,159 and take their pictures. 152 00:10:03,436 --> 00:10:05,028 And it was like getting a passport photo. 153 00:10:05,171 --> 00:10:05,899 It was very quick. 154 00:10:06,038 --> 00:10:08,268 And everybody who was photographed that 155 00:10:08,407 --> 00:10:10,272 afternoon became a famous artist. 156 00:10:10,843 --> 00:10:12,333 And we were supposed to be anonymous! 157 00:10:20,519 --> 00:10:23,317 Phil's hair was one of the reasons why I think 158 00:10:23,456 --> 00:10:25,219 I've recycled his image so much. 159 00:10:25,358 --> 00:10:30,819 Because those dendritic, Medusa-like curls were great... 160 00:10:30,963 --> 00:10:36,299 ... to translate into little dots or diagonal lines or 161 00:10:36,435 --> 00:10:39,199 fingerprints or wads of pulp paper pulp. 162 00:10:39,338 --> 00:10:42,637 Every time I pumped his image through a new medium, 163 00:10:42,775 --> 00:10:44,868 it was interesting to see what would happen... 164 00:10:45,011 --> 00:10:46,603 ...with different kinds of marks. 165 00:10:52,985 --> 00:10:54,748 Certainly people looked at my... 166 00:10:54,887 --> 00:10:57,754 ... early dot pieces, where the same stupid dot 167 00:10:57,890 --> 00:11:00,120 was sprayed over and over and over. 168 00:11:00,259 --> 00:11:01,453 There were no dots that 169 00:11:01,594 --> 00:11:04,222 were fancier dots than any other dots. 170 00:11:04,363 --> 00:11:06,126 There were no dots with flourish. 171 00:11:06,265 --> 00:11:09,325 They were the same stupid, inarticulate, 172 00:11:09,468 --> 00:11:12,767 non-expressive, non-symbolic mark. 173 00:11:12,972 --> 00:11:16,999 But clusters of those marks would build an image. 174 00:11:17,410 --> 00:11:20,174 And the same thing was happening 175 00:11:20,312 --> 00:11:21,506 in Phil's music where... 176 00:11:21,647 --> 00:11:22,705 ... What started out 177 00:11:22,848 --> 00:11:25,840 as a very minimal activity ended up 178 00:11:25,985 --> 00:11:31,252 making this very rich and textured and complex sound. 179 00:11:32,792 --> 00:11:37,456 We had emerged from a very overly ideo-logic movement, 180 00:11:37,596 --> 00:11:41,464 in which music theories were dictating the procedures 181 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:43,500 that composers were following. 182 00:11:43,769 --> 00:11:45,669 By the time my generation came along, 183 00:11:45,805 --> 00:11:48,433 it seemed to us that these ideas were exhausted. 184 00:11:48,607 --> 00:11:51,098 So, that the idea was to start music in a different place. 185 00:11:51,377 --> 00:11:55,074 That meant abandoning a whole array of 186 00:11:55,214 --> 00:11:57,079 procedures and techniques, 187 00:11:57,416 --> 00:11:59,179 and trying to invent something new. 188 00:11:59,418 --> 00:12:02,114 What's interesting is that a new language 189 00:12:02,254 --> 00:12:03,585 requires a new technique. 190 00:12:04,223 --> 00:12:06,350 It's such an obvious thing in a way. 191 00:12:06,759 --> 00:12:08,784 If you don't need a new technique than 192 00:12:08,928 --> 00:12:10,657 what you're saying probably isn't new. 193 00:12:13,566 --> 00:12:14,464 One of the most interesting things 194 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:16,500 I did is I started an ensemble. 195 00:12:17,203 --> 00:12:18,795 I called up some friends I'd gone to school with, 196 00:12:18,938 --> 00:12:19,700 and I got them together, 197 00:12:19,839 --> 00:12:20,965 and I put the music in front of them, and I said, 198 00:12:21,107 --> 00:12:22,369 "Let's try this out." 199 00:12:23,509 --> 00:12:26,000 It gave me a chance to hear the music I was writing, 200 00:12:26,178 --> 00:12:30,740 but it also made me independent of all the other music organizations. 201 00:12:30,916 --> 00:12:32,315 He's got his hippie headband on there. 202 00:12:32,451 --> 00:12:34,510 I didn't have to ask anyone's permission. 203 00:12:35,488 --> 00:12:36,614 Or approval. 204 00:12:37,490 --> 00:12:39,151 I could just do what I wanted to do. 205 00:12:39,892 --> 00:12:42,520 This was kind of the classic ensemble. 206 00:12:42,661 --> 00:12:43,889 Dickie Landry; 207 00:12:44,096 --> 00:12:45,154 Jon Gibson; 208 00:12:45,397 --> 00:12:46,295 Richard Peck; 209 00:12:46,766 --> 00:12:48,757 Iris Hiskey, the vocalist keyboard player; 210 00:12:48,901 --> 00:12:51,461 Michael Riesman, of course, our music director; 211 00:12:52,138 --> 00:12:54,368 myself; and Philip. 212 00:12:54,974 --> 00:12:57,602 The ensemble was my mouthpiece, so-tospeak. 213 00:12:57,943 --> 00:13:00,207 I didn't use the ensemble to support me. 214 00:13:00,479 --> 00:13:01,741 I supported the ensemble. 215 00:13:02,548 --> 00:13:05,278 Everybody was paid, and by the mid '70s 216 00:13:05,417 --> 00:13:08,284 I was paying unemployment insurance, 217 00:13:08,420 --> 00:13:10,980 and some years later was doing health insurance. 218 00:13:11,357 --> 00:13:13,416 I made the job a good job. 219 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:14,958 Here's another early one. 220 00:13:15,094 --> 00:13:16,288 At the same time, 221 00:13:16,428 --> 00:13:19,591 I'd to get a day job to support the ensemble. 222 00:13:43,255 --> 00:13:44,415 He plumbed a lot of places 223 00:13:44,557 --> 00:13:45,854 and he plumbed our first loft. 224 00:13:45,991 --> 00:13:47,856 He plumbed our second loft too, actually. 225 00:13:48,460 --> 00:13:50,621 He is a much better musician than he was a plumber. 226 00:13:50,763 --> 00:13:51,855 The plumbing always leaked. 227 00:13:55,968 --> 00:13:58,698 The earliest times I heard your music, 228 00:13:59,371 --> 00:14:02,431 they were never in performance spaces anyhow. 229 00:14:02,575 --> 00:14:03,098 No. 230 00:14:03,242 --> 00:14:05,142 They were in someone's loft... 231 00:14:05,277 --> 00:14:08,144 -Or in an art museum. -ln a park. 232 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:08,871 ... Or in a park. 233 00:14:09,014 --> 00:14:10,777 ... Or in a park or an art gallery, 234 00:14:11,150 --> 00:14:17,487 but not in a place where acoustics would figure... 235 00:14:18,157 --> 00:14:20,352 Well, we weren't even allowed in those places. 236 00:14:20,693 --> 00:14:22,422 Of course not! 237 00:14:24,463 --> 00:14:26,658 I was living down close to SoHo on the 238 00:14:26,799 --> 00:14:28,733 corner of Bleecker and Elizabeth. 239 00:14:29,034 --> 00:14:31,127 I did concerts in lofts and galleries. 240 00:14:32,338 --> 00:14:33,771 There would be sixty, eighty, 241 00:14:33,906 --> 00:14:35,703 a hundred people there every Sunday. 242 00:14:39,612 --> 00:14:42,206 Usually the audience was sitting on the floor, 243 00:14:42,348 --> 00:14:44,475 Iying on the floor, kind of meditating. 244 00:14:45,451 --> 00:14:48,579 We would sit in a circle in the center of the art gallery, 245 00:14:48,854 --> 00:14:51,550 and then the audience would be around us, 246 00:14:51,690 --> 00:14:52,918 and out in the periphery of the room 247 00:14:53,058 --> 00:14:56,027 in the four corners would be the PA speakers. 248 00:14:56,161 --> 00:14:57,822 So, we performed in this kind of 249 00:14:57,963 --> 00:15:00,261 huge sound field that enveloped both us, 250 00:15:00,399 --> 00:15:01,525 and the audience. 251 00:15:02,301 --> 00:15:05,532 Everybody was part of the same sonic experience. 252 00:15:06,005 --> 00:15:08,633 That's why, I think, the experience was so intense. 253 00:15:10,209 --> 00:15:11,369 Of course everybody was high. 254 00:15:11,510 --> 00:15:12,875 The audience was high. The musicians were high. 255 00:15:13,012 --> 00:15:13,603 Everybody was high. 256 00:15:13,746 --> 00:15:15,407 Philip didn't do drugs, but everybody else did. 257 00:15:17,416 --> 00:15:19,008 The audience could walk in and out. 258 00:15:19,151 --> 00:15:22,086 And in the early days, we would usually lose 259 00:15:22,221 --> 00:15:23,916 probably twenty-five percent of the audience, 260 00:15:24,056 --> 00:15:26,183 or a third of the audience, would have left. 261 00:15:26,325 --> 00:15:27,155 They couldn't stand it. 262 00:15:27,293 --> 00:15:28,851 They hated it. 263 00:15:29,662 --> 00:15:31,596 You have to remember, his music was very loud 264 00:15:31,730 --> 00:15:34,597 and very repetitive and really intense. 265 00:15:34,733 --> 00:15:35,722 Knock, knock who's there? 266 00:15:35,868 --> 00:15:36,857 Knock, knock who's there? 267 00:15:37,002 --> 00:15:37,991 Knock, knock who's there? 268 00:15:38,137 --> 00:15:39,866 Knock, knock... Phil Glass!. 269 00:15:40,739 --> 00:15:42,673 What would happen is it ended suddenly. 270 00:15:42,808 --> 00:15:45,276 It would just like -it would end. 271 00:15:48,914 --> 00:15:51,246 The audience would just sit there for 272 00:15:51,850 --> 00:15:54,444 a minute or two and then would just applaud. 273 00:15:54,586 --> 00:15:56,383 It's like they had a revelation. 274 00:15:56,622 --> 00:15:58,487 Oh, this one I'll never forget. 275 00:15:58,891 --> 00:16:02,054 Some people had a visceral reaction to it 276 00:16:02,194 --> 00:16:03,661 where they completely hated it. 277 00:16:03,796 --> 00:16:05,263 This was an incredible concert. 278 00:16:05,397 --> 00:16:09,857 We're playing outside in the park and in the middle of the concert 279 00:16:10,002 --> 00:16:11,492 this guy comes up 280 00:16:11,637 --> 00:16:15,767 and starts pounding on the keyboard yelling at the top of his voice. 281 00:16:15,908 --> 00:16:18,069 "This is not music!. You can't do this! 282 00:16:18,210 --> 00:16:19,336 This is an insult!" 283 00:16:19,478 --> 00:16:20,137 "I'm a music teacher!." 284 00:16:20,279 --> 00:16:21,405 and he was talking to the audience saying, 285 00:16:21,513 --> 00:16:25,313 "These people can't play! They can't even play scales!" 286 00:16:25,451 --> 00:16:28,545 At which point, Richard Peck began to play all the scales. 287 00:16:28,687 --> 00:16:30,587 And finally a cop had to come over 288 00:16:30,723 --> 00:16:33,624 and ask us if we wanted to take the guy away. 289 00:16:33,759 --> 00:16:35,249 It was hilariously funny. 290 00:16:36,295 --> 00:16:38,957 My favorite reviews were all the negative ones, 291 00:16:39,098 --> 00:16:42,727 which you wear as a badge of honor I think 292 00:16:42,868 --> 00:16:46,861 because if the work is rigorous enough and difficult enough 293 00:16:47,006 --> 00:16:49,668 and severe enough and tough enough 294 00:16:49,808 --> 00:16:51,503 nobody's going to like this stuff. 295 00:16:51,677 --> 00:16:54,737 So, then you get the bad reviews, you think, well, 296 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:57,440 I must be on the right track because... 297 00:16:57,583 --> 00:17:00,643 You see!. They don't understand it 298 00:17:00,786 --> 00:17:01,844 and they don't like it. 299 00:17:01,987 --> 00:17:04,615 We used to rent Frank Zappa's old tour bus 300 00:17:04,757 --> 00:17:06,315 when we went on tour sometimes. 301 00:17:06,492 --> 00:17:08,392 And we used to have great fun on the tour bus 302 00:17:08,527 --> 00:17:11,291 reading the reviews out loud from the night before. 303 00:17:11,430 --> 00:17:13,898 "lncessantly repetitive and gradually 304 00:17:14,033 --> 00:17:16,331 additive mosaics of sound that are either 305 00:17:16,468 --> 00:17:20,529 hypnotic or boring depending on one's reaction to the music." 306 00:17:20,672 --> 00:17:23,266 "The effect is rather like trying to rub your stomach 307 00:17:23,409 --> 00:17:25,673 and pat your head at the same time 308 00:17:25,811 --> 00:17:27,779 and the results are just about as rewarding." 309 00:17:29,748 --> 00:17:33,115 "His operas to date, stand to music as the sentence, 310 00:17:33,252 --> 00:17:36,278 'See spot run,' stands to literature." 311 00:17:37,756 --> 00:17:42,022 I still have a very strong, solid hate faction 312 00:17:42,161 --> 00:17:42,957 Good. 313 00:17:43,962 --> 00:17:45,554 I find that reassuring. 314 00:17:45,697 --> 00:17:46,686 Absolutely. 315 00:17:54,473 --> 00:17:56,498 Some of the older composers and the critics 316 00:17:56,642 --> 00:17:59,406 vilified us to such a degree that we became famous! 317 00:17:59,978 --> 00:18:02,446 It was a great help. 318 00:18:03,916 --> 00:18:07,784 It propelled us right into the center of the music world. 319 00:18:15,461 --> 00:18:16,086 Good to see you. 320 00:18:16,228 --> 00:18:17,252 Good to see you. 321 00:18:19,264 --> 00:18:21,232 Let's see if there're any brain waves... 322 00:18:21,834 --> 00:18:23,825 He's thinking. 323 00:18:25,404 --> 00:18:27,634 That hollow sound you hear. 324 00:18:29,675 --> 00:18:31,267 Thanks again Chuck. I'll see you later. 325 00:18:48,427 --> 00:18:48,916 I don't know if Philip told you this, 326 00:18:49,061 --> 00:18:52,963 but he inherited one-twentieth of a parking lot 327 00:18:53,432 --> 00:18:56,230 with his cousin Normie, the dentist, 328 00:18:57,202 --> 00:18:59,261 in downtown Baltimore. 329 00:18:59,404 --> 00:19:01,395 So, he had a little bit of money. 330 00:19:02,407 --> 00:19:06,867 And he said he wanted to find a place to Write music. 331 00:19:07,012 --> 00:19:09,105 So, we drove through mainland 332 00:19:09,248 --> 00:19:13,480 Nova Scotia, and then ended up in Cape Breton lsland 333 00:19:13,619 --> 00:19:15,314 where the car broke down. 334 00:19:15,487 --> 00:19:16,283 Right here. 335 00:19:17,656 --> 00:19:19,248 And we liked it a lot there. 336 00:19:19,391 --> 00:19:20,722 It was really amazing. 337 00:19:23,729 --> 00:19:26,027 So, Phil bought a place. 338 00:19:27,766 --> 00:19:31,862 This is our house, and this is our beach. 339 00:19:32,538 --> 00:19:35,871 Pretty great, don't you think! Fantastic. 340 00:20:00,032 --> 00:20:01,465 I've been here thirty-six years. 341 00:20:02,234 --> 00:20:03,599 I came up in '69. 342 00:20:06,271 --> 00:20:09,570 I had some other kids and I wanted to get out of the city. 343 00:20:09,775 --> 00:20:11,766 I wanted them to have a place outside of New York. 344 00:20:20,852 --> 00:20:24,879 "Phil-ville." That's what his friends call it. 345 00:20:25,023 --> 00:20:26,012 "Phil-ville." 346 00:20:26,458 --> 00:20:28,085 There's "The Big House." It's always been 347 00:20:28,227 --> 00:20:30,127 called "The Big House," overlooking the cliff. 348 00:20:30,295 --> 00:20:31,819 And that's where people gather. 349 00:20:32,097 --> 00:20:33,189 Daddy! 350 00:20:33,465 --> 00:20:34,489 Where did you get that? 351 00:20:34,733 --> 00:20:36,928 I got it from Rudi! 352 00:20:37,703 --> 00:20:39,227 That's a great truck! 353 00:20:42,541 --> 00:20:46,272 Philip's got like eleven cabins, and our friends come and stay there. 354 00:20:46,411 --> 00:20:47,537 They stay in the cabins. 355 00:20:49,047 --> 00:20:50,446 Then a little further down the road 356 00:20:50,582 --> 00:20:54,450 is the farmhouse with a big wheat field in front of it 357 00:20:54,586 --> 00:20:56,076 and a beautiful view of the ocean. 358 00:20:57,923 --> 00:21:00,824 And then across the road up on a hill is a house 359 00:21:00,959 --> 00:21:03,018 that Philip bought that originally was called "The Hermitage" 360 00:21:03,161 --> 00:21:05,391 because people never saw Philip and he worked all day long 361 00:21:05,530 --> 00:21:07,361 and they just called it "The Hermitage." 362 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,134 And then I came along. 363 00:21:10,369 --> 00:21:12,803 It wasn't appropriate to call it The Hermitage anymore! 364 00:21:12,938 --> 00:21:15,839 So, we call it Philip and Holly's House. 365 00:21:20,479 --> 00:21:22,071 Can Marlowe have a ride Cameron? 366 00:21:22,214 --> 00:21:22,976 No!. 367 00:21:29,855 --> 00:21:31,789 You're actually going to document this whole thing? 368 00:21:35,327 --> 00:21:37,625 All your secrets. 369 00:21:39,031 --> 00:21:40,623 I have so few secrets. 370 00:21:43,802 --> 00:21:45,030 Actually, I have one secret. 371 00:21:47,873 --> 00:21:49,170 It's a very easy secret: 372 00:21:50,175 --> 00:21:52,370 you get up early in the morning and you work all day. 373 00:21:53,378 --> 00:21:54,572 That's the only secret. 374 00:21:55,847 --> 00:21:56,905 Is there another one? 375 00:22:01,453 --> 00:22:04,251 I've never been filmed before making pizza. 376 00:22:04,389 --> 00:22:05,413 I'm getting nervous. 377 00:22:05,557 --> 00:22:06,854 What if it doesn't work? 378 00:22:08,060 --> 00:22:09,288 We'll go out and buy some. 379 00:22:12,731 --> 00:22:13,959 Think of it as a new work. 380 00:22:14,099 --> 00:22:16,158 You must have the same thing sometimes. 381 00:22:16,301 --> 00:22:18,769 I have one sitting on my piano right now. 382 00:22:23,842 --> 00:22:25,969 How is the symphony coming along? 383 00:22:26,144 --> 00:22:31,776 How's it coming along? Well, I don't know. 384 00:22:33,518 --> 00:22:34,576 I don't even know what movement I'm working on. 385 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:36,312 I think, I'm working on movement one, 386 00:22:36,455 --> 00:22:38,946 but it occurred to me that I maybe had it backwards. 387 00:22:39,091 --> 00:22:42,083 Maybe it's the middle movement and not the first movement. 388 00:22:42,227 --> 00:22:43,216 I don't know. 389 00:22:47,199 --> 00:22:50,396 But it's a very hard piece to count. 390 00:22:52,003 --> 00:22:53,197 How do you mean? 391 00:22:54,106 --> 00:22:55,698 The rhythms are very tricky. 392 00:23:03,482 --> 00:23:04,813 How's that for careful measurement! 393 00:23:07,953 --> 00:23:10,217 One would imagine you'd begin at the beginning. 394 00:23:10,355 --> 00:23:12,550 One would know, shouldn't one! 395 00:23:12,758 --> 00:23:15,226 And usually I do. I mean, mainly I do know. 396 00:23:17,329 --> 00:23:20,230 But this symphony is puzzling to me. 397 00:23:22,567 --> 00:23:24,797 Most symphonies I just start at the beginning and write to the end. 398 00:23:24,936 --> 00:23:26,870 And this one, it's a little different. 399 00:23:27,005 --> 00:23:28,472 I'm not quite sure why. 400 00:23:29,775 --> 00:23:39,013 It seems like there're various currents of thinking 401 00:23:39,151 --> 00:23:43,520 in the stuff I've done that seem to be appearing 402 00:23:43,655 --> 00:23:46,647 in this piece in an unexpected way. 403 00:23:47,325 --> 00:23:49,657 And so, I don't really know. 404 00:23:51,863 --> 00:23:54,457 It's puzzling, I mean, I don't actually know sometimes 405 00:23:54,599 --> 00:23:57,090 where we're going with it. 406 00:24:02,007 --> 00:24:03,975 Do you like big chunky pieces of garlic? 407 00:24:04,476 --> 00:24:06,569 The kind that kind of explode in your mouth! 408 00:24:07,546 --> 00:24:08,570 That's what you're getting. 409 00:24:14,286 --> 00:24:16,345 Usually, it occurs to me, what happens at a certain point 410 00:24:16,488 --> 00:24:19,184 in the piece is you actually know what the piece is about. 411 00:24:19,658 --> 00:24:22,183 And that can happen very close to the end. 412 00:24:22,661 --> 00:24:23,855 Doesn't that happen with a film? 413 00:24:24,229 --> 00:24:24,888 Oh yeah. 414 00:24:25,063 --> 00:24:27,122 It can happen very close to the end, "Oh..." 415 00:24:27,732 --> 00:24:29,290 and you'll come to that place and say, "Oh..." 416 00:24:29,434 --> 00:24:29,900 That's what it is! 417 00:24:30,035 --> 00:24:30,831 "That's what it is!" 418 00:24:30,969 --> 00:24:35,201 And hopefully it happens before the piece is over! 419 00:24:36,274 --> 00:24:37,571 It almost always does. 420 00:24:39,911 --> 00:24:41,401 If you've done it for years and years 421 00:24:41,513 --> 00:24:43,913 you become confident of it. 422 00:24:44,049 --> 00:24:45,983 But if you're younger you may not be confident of it, 423 00:24:46,117 --> 00:24:47,516 and it can be very scary. 424 00:24:47,853 --> 00:24:52,756 But at the point that I am at, it comes. 425 00:24:54,292 --> 00:24:56,453 It's kind of like you're waiting 426 00:24:56,595 --> 00:24:58,586 with a fishing rod in the water. 427 00:24:58,730 --> 00:24:59,754 You're waiting for the bite. 428 00:24:59,898 --> 00:25:00,956 It will come. 429 00:25:01,199 --> 00:25:02,791 There! Oh! There it is! 430 00:25:04,903 --> 00:25:07,633 But the thing is, is that it doesn't come if 431 00:25:07,772 --> 00:25:09,535 you're not there waiting for it. 432 00:25:09,674 --> 00:25:11,733 You've got to do the work, or it doesn't come. 433 00:25:15,180 --> 00:25:17,512 Do you find ideas turning over in your head the whole time? 434 00:25:17,649 --> 00:25:21,676 Or are you very specific about when you sit down for work, 435 00:25:21,820 --> 00:25:23,549 and that's the work time? 436 00:25:23,688 --> 00:25:26,020 I think of the processes a slightly different way, 437 00:25:26,157 --> 00:25:29,285 and I think, that you'll understand this as soon as I say it. 438 00:25:31,162 --> 00:25:33,357 I think of it as one of those rivers that's 439 00:25:33,498 --> 00:25:35,989 running underground and you don't know where it is. 440 00:25:38,203 --> 00:25:39,670 But, you know that it's running. 441 00:25:40,138 --> 00:25:41,230 That's exactly the feeling. 442 00:25:41,373 --> 00:25:44,433 I say, "l know!. There's a river under the ground!" 443 00:25:44,576 --> 00:25:45,668 And you don't know exactly where it is, 444 00:25:45,810 --> 00:25:46,970 but you do know it's there. 445 00:25:47,646 --> 00:25:50,171 If you try to find it you might not. 446 00:25:50,882 --> 00:25:53,112 So, it's like divining water? 447 00:25:53,919 --> 00:25:55,079 Who the hell knows? 448 00:25:57,856 --> 00:25:58,550 You don't wake up in the middle 449 00:25:58,690 --> 00:26:00,920 of the night with a mad, jotting frenzy? 450 00:26:01,059 --> 00:26:03,493 It's happened. I try to resist it. 451 00:26:03,628 --> 00:26:05,493 I resent it actually. 452 00:26:07,799 --> 00:26:08,959 I'd rather it came in the morning 453 00:26:09,100 --> 00:26:12,092 when I'm ready to go to work. 454 00:26:12,704 --> 00:26:15,138 But there have been times when I've said "OK!" 455 00:26:15,674 --> 00:26:17,539 and I'll go downstairs and I'll write it down. 456 00:26:17,676 --> 00:26:19,371 But I do it rarely. 457 00:26:20,745 --> 00:26:22,406 Somebody is testing your pizza dough Daddy 458 00:26:22,547 --> 00:26:23,980 to make sure that it is OK. Is it OK Marlowe? 459 00:26:24,115 --> 00:26:25,047 -How is it? Is it good? -Yes? 460 00:26:25,183 --> 00:26:27,515 Yes, Marlowe says your pizza dough is OK. 461 00:26:29,621 --> 00:26:34,024 But sometimes, you don't know until the audience is in front of the piece. 462 00:26:35,427 --> 00:26:37,691 -You need that point of view... -Phil? 463 00:26:37,829 --> 00:26:38,659 Yes. 464 00:26:39,097 --> 00:26:40,962 Cameron just broke a glass all over the steps 465 00:26:41,099 --> 00:26:43,499 and all over the grass so no one can go barefoot anymore. 466 00:26:43,635 --> 00:26:44,329 OK. 467 00:26:44,469 --> 00:26:45,629 Oh my gosh! 468 00:26:46,471 --> 00:26:48,234 That's the second glass these kids have broken! 469 00:26:48,940 --> 00:26:50,237 They basically have nothing to do 470 00:26:50,375 --> 00:26:51,865 with this house until dinnertime. 471 00:26:56,948 --> 00:26:58,438 Just when you think you know what you're doing, 472 00:26:58,583 --> 00:27:01,313 something happens and you don't know. 473 00:27:02,354 --> 00:27:03,981 I'm going to put this right in the garbage. 474 00:27:04,122 --> 00:27:04,986 Watch out. 475 00:27:05,123 --> 00:27:07,182 I'm going to put this right in the trash. 476 00:27:25,810 --> 00:27:29,268 "'Wow"' said Christopher. "l love play clay." 477 00:27:29,848 --> 00:27:32,043 So, he got himself a piece of red play clay 478 00:27:32,183 --> 00:27:34,743 and wapped it in his hands. Wap, wap, wap." 479 00:27:38,857 --> 00:27:40,381 OK. So, then how are we going to do this? 480 00:27:40,525 --> 00:27:42,186 We have four pizzas to make. 481 00:27:47,732 --> 00:27:52,066 What should we do? Potatoes and onions? 482 00:27:52,303 --> 00:27:53,998 That might be a good combination. 483 00:28:04,315 --> 00:28:05,680 Oh good! This is almost done. 484 00:28:06,184 --> 00:28:07,674 Who's tending the fire? 485 00:28:19,264 --> 00:28:22,028 Before we were talking about how the last part of it is the audience. 486 00:28:22,167 --> 00:28:25,659 This is it! Now the audience... 487 00:28:26,471 --> 00:28:28,234 Is going to tell us if it's any good. 488 00:28:28,907 --> 00:28:30,704 OK, Showtime Scott! 489 00:28:31,843 --> 00:28:32,673 Showtime. 490 00:28:34,979 --> 00:28:38,779 And a "baa" here and a "baa" there. 491 00:28:38,917 --> 00:28:40,885 Everywhere a "baa baa"! 492 00:28:41,019 --> 00:28:47,254 Old MacDonald had a farm "E-l-E-l-O." 493 00:28:47,625 --> 00:28:50,025 This baby doll has Philip's curly hair. 494 00:28:50,161 --> 00:28:54,325 But Cameron was exactly the kind of personality Philip was. 495 00:28:55,767 --> 00:29:00,261 That was what Philip was like as a little boy. 496 00:29:09,948 --> 00:29:11,939 You think Philip looks like Cameron? 497 00:29:13,485 --> 00:29:14,509 I think so. 498 00:29:16,287 --> 00:29:18,755 I don't know when that could be, before the war? 499 00:29:21,192 --> 00:29:23,387 You know it was a very long time ago Scott, 500 00:29:23,528 --> 00:29:24,859 I'm going to be seventy, 501 00:29:25,163 --> 00:29:27,688 we're talking about the '40s! 502 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,395 Here is the best picture of the three of us. 503 00:29:31,536 --> 00:29:35,495 That was Philip, and you can see how much he looks like his boy. 504 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:37,364 I was born in December, 505 00:29:37,509 --> 00:29:40,808 Marty came in April and Philip was born in January. 506 00:29:40,979 --> 00:29:43,573 So, it was very close dynamic. 507 00:29:44,649 --> 00:29:46,879 He was a little 'udge, I must say. 508 00:29:47,418 --> 00:29:48,885 My mother always said, 509 00:29:49,020 --> 00:29:54,617 "l just got Sheppie and Philip, but I selected Marty." 510 00:29:54,759 --> 00:29:57,421 She always said Marty was chosen. 511 00:29:58,062 --> 00:29:59,859 We always knew he was adopted. 512 00:30:00,832 --> 00:30:03,232 Here's Philip's father, my father, 513 00:30:03,368 --> 00:30:05,393 in the marines during the war. 514 00:30:06,371 --> 00:30:07,633 He had been in the marines, 515 00:30:07,772 --> 00:30:09,706 that's the interesting thing about my father, 516 00:30:09,841 --> 00:30:12,867 as an eighteen year old and after Pearl Harbor Day 517 00:30:13,011 --> 00:30:14,501 he re-enlisted. 518 00:30:15,413 --> 00:30:17,904 Much to my mother's shock. 519 00:30:18,049 --> 00:30:20,279 Huh! My mother almost killed him. 520 00:30:20,552 --> 00:30:25,421 This was his first store and this was on Howard Street. 521 00:30:25,790 --> 00:30:28,122 Philip and Marty worked on Saturday in the the record store 522 00:30:28,259 --> 00:30:29,817 so, they heard a lot of music. 523 00:30:30,028 --> 00:30:32,189 And my father liked classical music 524 00:30:32,330 --> 00:30:33,957 and he knew a lot about it. 525 00:30:34,199 --> 00:30:37,225 They would always give dad free samples of 526 00:30:37,368 --> 00:30:39,859 records that they were trying to promote, and whatever. 527 00:30:40,004 --> 00:30:45,840 So, every evening we were constantly listening to classical music. 528 00:30:46,411 --> 00:30:50,472 If you didn't sell some records you could return them. 529 00:30:50,648 --> 00:30:53,913 But in order to return them, you had to break them. 530 00:30:54,085 --> 00:30:58,351 So, Philip and I used to go down to the basement on Howard Street 531 00:30:58,723 --> 00:31:01,123 and we'd dance on the records. 532 00:31:01,259 --> 00:31:04,251 We would throw records. 533 00:31:04,395 --> 00:31:05,555 We would dance on them. 534 00:31:05,697 --> 00:31:06,891 We would jump on them. 535 00:31:07,165 --> 00:31:12,432 He was just a very active, precocious, athletic boy. 536 00:31:12,570 --> 00:31:15,630 This is mom holding court in the library. 537 00:31:16,140 --> 00:31:17,971 She was a toughie. 538 00:31:18,276 --> 00:31:20,244 He drove my mother -not my father 539 00:31:20,378 --> 00:31:23,313 -he drove my mother mad because he was quite smart. 540 00:31:23,815 --> 00:31:25,180 I don't know what Philip will tell you. 541 00:31:25,316 --> 00:31:26,647 I mean I looked at it that 542 00:31:26,784 --> 00:31:28,979 my mother was supportive of Philip. 543 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:33,147 I mean, she didn't know what was going on with him, 544 00:31:33,424 --> 00:31:35,892 but she was supportive of him. 545 00:31:36,027 --> 00:31:37,654 At his time, he was the youngest 546 00:31:37,795 --> 00:31:40,992 ever student at The Peabody. 547 00:31:41,699 --> 00:31:42,961 At the regular Conservatory. 548 00:31:43,101 --> 00:31:44,693 Yeah, he was their youngest. 549 00:31:44,836 --> 00:31:46,360 Not in the Preparatory. 550 00:31:47,538 --> 00:31:49,870 There's an exercise that he did 551 00:31:50,074 --> 00:31:53,168 practicing his composition skills. 552 00:31:53,344 --> 00:31:59,180 See here is, he got a C-Minus on this one. 553 00:31:59,317 --> 00:32:00,978 Somebody must have been grading it that 554 00:32:01,119 --> 00:32:05,146 really didn't foresee his ultimate talent. 555 00:32:06,658 --> 00:32:10,492 Maybe he's going to tell you that he always wanted to be a composer. 556 00:32:10,628 --> 00:32:11,322 I don't know. 557 00:32:11,462 --> 00:32:12,793 I'd be surprised though. 558 00:32:13,131 --> 00:32:15,122 He probably knew something was there. 559 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:17,124 Shep and I took piano lessons 560 00:32:17,268 --> 00:32:18,530 and I don't think Philip did. 561 00:32:18,670 --> 00:32:20,900 I think, he really kind of 562 00:32:21,039 --> 00:32:23,064 watched what we were doing and did it. 563 00:32:23,207 --> 00:32:26,506 And then my father took piano lessons, 564 00:32:26,644 --> 00:32:28,839 but his main problem was that his fingers 565 00:32:28,980 --> 00:32:33,474 were so large that he had a problem hitting just one key. 566 00:32:33,685 --> 00:32:35,346 Why didn't Philip take piano lessons? 567 00:32:35,486 --> 00:32:37,613 You know what, I think, he took flute. 568 00:32:37,822 --> 00:32:38,880 That's what I think too. 569 00:32:39,290 --> 00:32:40,120 You're going to get pay dirt! 570 00:32:40,258 --> 00:32:44,024 Here's Philip Glass, 1952 at camp. 571 00:32:44,362 --> 00:32:45,659 It was Philip who discovered 572 00:32:45,797 --> 00:32:47,389 The University of Chicago 573 00:32:47,532 --> 00:32:48,794 and said that he wanted to go 574 00:32:48,933 --> 00:32:50,298 when he was fifteen! 575 00:32:50,568 --> 00:32:52,900 Philip bugged my mother so much, 576 00:32:53,037 --> 00:32:55,028 and my father that they just said, "OK." 577 00:32:55,173 --> 00:32:56,140 He could go. 578 00:32:56,841 --> 00:33:00,709 It certainly wasn't my parents pushing this child prodigy. 579 00:33:00,845 --> 00:33:02,506 Huh! Not at all! 580 00:33:03,147 --> 00:33:04,739 God, I can't believe it! 581 00:33:04,882 --> 00:33:06,372 They say the wrestling team, 582 00:33:06,517 --> 00:33:09,850 but I kind of think it was the freshman wrestling team. 583 00:33:09,988 --> 00:33:11,319 Don't you think? I don't know. 584 00:33:12,924 --> 00:33:15,017 This is when they went up to Chicago. 585 00:33:15,159 --> 00:33:18,595 That's '56, 1956. It's on the back. 586 00:33:18,730 --> 00:33:20,095 Oh, it must have been when he graduated. 587 00:33:20,231 --> 00:33:23,598 Yeah, this must be when he graduated The University of Chicago. 588 00:33:23,768 --> 00:33:24,826 There it is. 589 00:33:26,137 --> 00:33:28,628 Don't ask us where the Morris came from. 590 00:33:28,873 --> 00:33:30,306 I don't have a clue. 591 00:33:30,875 --> 00:33:32,001 They thought he was going to be 592 00:33:32,143 --> 00:33:35,306 a doctor something like that. 593 00:33:35,713 --> 00:33:40,047 Something sensible that they could understand. 594 00:33:40,318 --> 00:33:43,310 He went to Chicago and graduated in three years 595 00:33:43,454 --> 00:33:46,719 and came back to tell Ben and lda, our parents, 596 00:33:46,858 --> 00:33:48,655 that he was going to go to Juilliard. 597 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,326 And I believe that they were in shock! 598 00:33:52,196 --> 00:33:53,925 They were absolutely in shock. 599 00:33:54,799 --> 00:33:57,495 And then he went up there and got himself in. 600 00:33:58,503 --> 00:34:00,664 He's a very determined fellow. 601 00:34:03,674 --> 00:34:07,269 And he also could manage people very well. 602 00:34:07,578 --> 00:34:10,069 He managed my parents, for the most part, 603 00:34:10,214 --> 00:34:11,442 to get what he wanted. 604 00:34:13,551 --> 00:34:16,452 I don't mean it in a bad way -I mean he 605 00:34:16,587 --> 00:34:17,849 brought my mother around. 606 00:34:17,989 --> 00:34:24,087 Ah, The Juilliard commencement concert, 1962. 607 00:34:24,796 --> 00:34:27,526 My mother and father would have preferred him to 608 00:34:27,665 --> 00:34:29,565 be a professor of music at someplace, 609 00:34:29,700 --> 00:34:32,328 but he didn't think it'd be performed. 610 00:34:32,470 --> 00:34:33,801 He didn't want to do it that way. 611 00:34:33,938 --> 00:34:37,032 He wanted to perform, and he put together his own little... 612 00:34:38,109 --> 00:34:39,303 Those guys. 613 00:34:40,578 --> 00:34:42,443 He wanted people to hear his music. 614 00:34:42,580 --> 00:34:48,246 He isn't happy if you just have one performance and it's well reviewed. 615 00:34:48,386 --> 00:34:49,683 That does not make Philip happy. 616 00:34:49,821 --> 00:34:53,416 He wants it to be performed a lot, and have a lot of people see it. 617 00:34:54,025 --> 00:34:54,923 Is that Philip? 618 00:34:55,059 --> 00:34:56,788 I guess they think that's Philip. 619 00:34:57,261 --> 00:34:58,922 God, The New York Times! 620 00:34:59,363 --> 00:35:01,354 It was so vicious! 621 00:35:01,999 --> 00:35:06,561 But Philip's always been very stoic, I would say. 622 00:35:07,605 --> 00:35:09,573 He doesn't get as excited as me, 623 00:35:09,707 --> 00:35:11,834 or whatever the wife of the moment was. 624 00:35:13,177 --> 00:35:17,944 This picture, which I am sure you've seen others like it, is by Candy. 625 00:35:18,449 --> 00:35:20,781 Philip always had this thing about his wives 626 00:35:20,918 --> 00:35:24,354 had to be half his age plus seven, or something like that. 627 00:35:24,489 --> 00:35:25,649 Marty knows. 628 00:35:25,923 --> 00:35:28,391 You'll have to ask him. I forgot what it was. 629 00:35:28,659 --> 00:35:29,626 Here's Candy. 630 00:35:30,094 --> 00:35:31,823 I don't know what you're going to do about Philip's wives. 631 00:35:31,963 --> 00:35:35,091 We've already decided we aren't going to tell you anything about them. 632 00:35:35,233 --> 00:35:36,291 But that's Candy. 633 00:35:47,645 --> 00:35:51,877 She was so smart, so nice, so beautiful. 634 00:35:53,417 --> 00:35:55,908 She wore these big red glasses and she 635 00:35:56,053 --> 00:35:59,420 had very white skin and a very full mouth. 636 00:35:59,924 --> 00:36:00,515 She was very beautiful. 637 00:36:00,658 --> 00:36:02,250 She was a quarter Chinese. 638 00:36:03,828 --> 00:36:05,125 I mean everybody loved her. 639 00:36:05,263 --> 00:36:07,823 The most difficult characters loved her. 640 00:36:07,965 --> 00:36:10,024 Not that Bob Wilson is difficult because he's not 641 00:36:10,168 --> 00:36:14,002 -he's a total sweetheart -but he adored Candy. 642 00:36:14,305 --> 00:36:18,435 And Chuck adored Candy. And we adored her. 643 00:36:18,576 --> 00:36:22,808 And the kids adored her - Juliet and Zack loved her. 644 00:36:22,947 --> 00:36:25,745 This neighborhood back then was really bad. 645 00:36:26,017 --> 00:36:28,986 And she was going out on the street and 646 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,089 collecting crack vials to do these art pieces. 647 00:36:32,223 --> 00:36:32,518 She found these... 648 00:36:32,657 --> 00:36:34,488 All crack vials she wanted were right in her neighborhood. 649 00:36:34,625 --> 00:36:35,614 And she would put down, 650 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:41,289 "Fourth Street between Third/ Second/ Northside/ 12:15pm." 651 00:36:41,632 --> 00:36:45,796 She liked things that were quirky and weird and strange. 652 00:36:45,937 --> 00:36:46,995 She loved ephemera. 653 00:36:47,138 --> 00:36:48,230 When you look at this piece of 654 00:36:48,372 --> 00:36:51,136 The "Pot Crushed on Houston." 655 00:36:51,742 --> 00:36:52,231 She would find things 656 00:36:52,376 --> 00:36:53,900 that looked like garbage or trash or whatever 657 00:36:54,045 --> 00:36:54,841 and then she would take them home 658 00:36:54,979 --> 00:36:57,243 and put them in kind of an elegant setting 659 00:36:57,381 --> 00:36:59,849 and make something beautiful out of them. 660 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,385 Candy was misdiagnosed. 661 00:37:04,555 --> 00:37:06,079 She was getting very weak. 662 00:37:06,224 --> 00:37:07,555 And... 663 00:37:08,192 --> 00:37:11,787 I think, they told her to quit smoking and take vitamins. 664 00:37:11,929 --> 00:37:15,558 Right. One day, she turned yellow! 665 00:37:17,068 --> 00:37:18,865 She was admitted to the hospital. 666 00:37:20,605 --> 00:37:22,766 And the doctor came in and said - 667 00:37:23,074 --> 00:37:25,975 I remember this like it was yesterday 668 00:37:26,277 --> 00:37:29,269 "Candy Jernigan you have liver cancer." 669 00:37:37,521 --> 00:37:40,422 As Stokes said, it all happened so quickly. 670 00:37:41,292 --> 00:37:42,418 Philip was so sad. 671 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,586 It was like he was standing in the middle of the room going, 672 00:37:46,831 --> 00:37:47,820 "What happened? " 673 00:37:47,965 --> 00:37:54,871 He was devastated. He lost a soul mate. 674 00:37:58,442 --> 00:37:59,602 He was so sad. 675 00:38:04,849 --> 00:38:07,443 I think, he still worked. 676 00:38:07,585 --> 00:38:09,712 He worked. He... 677 00:38:09,854 --> 00:38:13,221 I think, that's one way that he gets in touch 678 00:38:13,357 --> 00:38:16,087 with what he's feeling is to keep working. 679 00:38:19,964 --> 00:38:22,364 And he was sad for a lot of years. 680 00:38:23,734 --> 00:38:29,331 I'm talking years. 681 00:38:35,346 --> 00:38:36,711 Really until Holly. 682 00:38:39,383 --> 00:38:41,749 Rebecca introduced Philip and myself. 683 00:38:42,620 --> 00:38:45,316 She was a customer at a restaurant of mine. 684 00:38:45,489 --> 00:38:46,854 Can I tell him the whole story? 685 00:38:47,024 --> 00:38:47,854 Yes you may. 686 00:38:47,992 --> 00:38:49,482 She asked me my name one night, 687 00:38:49,627 --> 00:38:51,925 and it was very busy and loud and I said "Holly," 688 00:38:52,063 --> 00:38:53,496 and she heard "Colleen". 689 00:38:54,298 --> 00:38:57,927 So, for a year, she and Philip would discuss 690 00:38:58,069 --> 00:39:01,232 "Colleen" at this restaurant. 691 00:39:01,372 --> 00:39:02,930 "Let's go see Colleen tonight." 692 00:39:03,074 --> 00:39:04,974 I had no idea these discussions were taking place. 693 00:39:05,109 --> 00:39:06,508 And my name was Holly! 694 00:39:07,411 --> 00:39:09,538 Anyway, I was married at the time and unavailable. 695 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,911 And Philip was just melted into the woodwork. 696 00:39:13,050 --> 00:39:15,382 He kind of had a crush on me, 697 00:39:15,519 --> 00:39:19,979 but I was unavailable and he didn't make a... 698 00:39:20,124 --> 00:39:20,556 Not a peep. 699 00:39:20,691 --> 00:39:21,817 Not a peep! 700 00:39:21,959 --> 00:39:23,620 And he was a vegetarian so, he would come in, 701 00:39:23,761 --> 00:39:25,524 and he would look at me and he would say, 702 00:39:25,663 --> 00:39:26,960 "What should I have for dinner tonight? " 703 00:39:27,098 --> 00:39:28,827 And I'd say, "The vegetable torte." 704 00:39:28,966 --> 00:39:30,399 And he'd say, "Thank you." 705 00:39:32,203 --> 00:39:37,163 And then one day, he came in and he said, 706 00:39:37,308 --> 00:39:38,138 "So, how's your husband??' 707 00:39:38,275 --> 00:39:40,402 And I said, "He's gone, thanks for asking. 708 00:39:40,544 --> 00:39:42,569 Got a truck and a dog and he's gone!" 709 00:39:42,713 --> 00:39:44,806 And Philip - I didn't know at the time - 710 00:39:44,949 --> 00:39:46,814 was kicking her under the table! 711 00:39:46,951 --> 00:39:48,213 Black and blue. 712 00:39:48,486 --> 00:39:50,044 "He's gone! The man is gone!" 713 00:39:50,187 --> 00:39:51,381 So, anyway, the rest is history. 714 00:39:51,522 --> 00:39:53,387 Rebecca called me a couple days later at the restaurant 715 00:39:53,524 --> 00:39:55,458 and asked for my phone number. 716 00:39:55,693 --> 00:39:58,184 And I said, "Does he know what he's getting into? 717 00:39:58,596 --> 00:40:00,860 The footsteps are barely cold out the door. 718 00:40:00,998 --> 00:40:01,657 I am not ready for this. " 719 00:40:01,799 --> 00:40:03,357 And she said, "Holly, he's probably the 720 00:40:03,501 --> 00:40:04,832 smartest man you'll ever meet. 721 00:40:04,969 --> 00:40:06,459 I think, he knows what he is in for." 722 00:40:21,051 --> 00:40:22,075 When we first met, 723 00:40:22,553 --> 00:40:25,147 the age difference was a big problem for me 724 00:40:25,289 --> 00:40:29,487 in accepting the idea of having a romantic relationship with him. 725 00:40:29,627 --> 00:40:31,219 And my brother had just died. 726 00:40:31,429 --> 00:40:32,726 And then Philip came into my life. 727 00:40:32,863 --> 00:40:33,989 And I said to him... 728 00:40:34,131 --> 00:40:37,191 Hopefully you'll just edit this right out... 729 00:40:37,334 --> 00:40:38,062 I said, "Great. 730 00:40:38,702 --> 00:40:40,863 Am I going to fall in love with you and you're just going to die on me!" 731 00:40:41,005 --> 00:40:43,166 I mean I was so callous! 732 00:40:43,541 --> 00:40:46,066 But I just didn't want any more loss. 733 00:40:46,210 --> 00:40:51,079 And he had just lost his wife, Candy, at the age of thirty-nine. 734 00:40:51,382 --> 00:40:51,973 And he said, 735 00:40:52,116 --> 00:40:55,210 "ln my experience the older one doesn't always die first." 736 00:40:59,023 --> 00:41:02,857 As I got to be with him more, he was so young at heart, 737 00:41:02,993 --> 00:41:08,431 and that just slowly evaporated this age difference. 738 00:41:09,233 --> 00:41:14,432 He also was incredibly romantic and fun and funny 739 00:41:16,073 --> 00:41:18,541 -all this stuff that I had been missing from my life. 740 00:41:20,578 --> 00:41:22,443 I think, I benefited from our age difference 741 00:41:22,580 --> 00:41:25,344 in a huge way, for years. 742 00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:44,199 Once I was in Los Angeles 743 00:41:44,335 --> 00:41:47,099 and I was talking to a group of film composers and they said, 744 00:41:47,238 --> 00:41:49,570 "What's the difference between writing an opera and writing a film??' 745 00:41:49,707 --> 00:41:52,676 And I thought about it for a few minutes and said, "Not much." 746 00:41:53,410 --> 00:41:54,434 Really and truly. 747 00:41:58,682 --> 00:42:00,547 When you work in films you can complain about producers 748 00:42:00,684 --> 00:42:01,742 and studios and directors 749 00:42:01,886 --> 00:42:04,081 and when you work in an opera you have nobody to complain to! 750 00:42:04,221 --> 00:42:05,381 That's the big difference. 751 00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:11,086 I began working in the theater 752 00:42:11,228 --> 00:42:13,753 and I learned about the image and music. 753 00:42:15,666 --> 00:42:17,429 I learned how to make that work. 754 00:42:23,908 --> 00:42:25,432 I began doing it when I was twenty. 755 00:42:25,943 --> 00:42:28,673 So, I've been doing it close to fifty years. 756 00:42:37,955 --> 00:42:41,015 This is this lMAX movie about Mars. 757 00:42:41,525 --> 00:42:43,459 And I'm just starting one of the cues now. 758 00:42:45,162 --> 00:42:47,392 It's an art but it's a real craft too. 759 00:42:47,831 --> 00:42:49,321 You might almost say it's a science. 760 00:42:49,466 --> 00:42:52,629 That psychological distance between the image and the music. 761 00:42:53,704 --> 00:42:55,899 It's both subjective and precise. 762 00:43:04,014 --> 00:43:06,812 Basically, the process is that Philip hands in a piece of music, 763 00:43:06,951 --> 00:43:08,714 and then I'll play it in as best I can. 764 00:43:08,986 --> 00:43:10,954 At the end of that, you have this "demo" 765 00:43:11,088 --> 00:43:13,079 of piece played by synthesizers. 766 00:43:21,065 --> 00:43:22,191 What you immediately notice about Philip, 767 00:43:22,333 --> 00:43:24,767 is that his whole thing is so very family. 768 00:43:26,003 --> 00:43:29,302 It is the opposite of the lonely composer in the hut. 769 00:43:30,374 --> 00:43:31,432 You like that parallel? 770 00:43:32,876 --> 00:43:33,638 It's so bad! 771 00:43:33,777 --> 00:43:34,675 I know! 772 00:43:34,912 --> 00:43:37,312 The way in which to me is that he's larger than life 773 00:43:37,448 --> 00:43:39,848 is the way that he can take on so many projects 774 00:43:39,984 --> 00:43:42,316 and do so many things all at once. 775 00:43:42,453 --> 00:43:43,750 Take that down a note. 776 00:43:44,888 --> 00:43:47,356 I don't think that's what they're complaining about. 777 00:43:47,625 --> 00:43:51,288 I can't keep the pace with Philip with three movies. 778 00:43:51,428 --> 00:43:53,896 Let's repeat it and see where it ends up. 779 00:43:57,134 --> 00:43:59,125 When you have four movies - 780 00:43:59,269 --> 00:44:02,432 as we have now -it's a lot, a lot. 781 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:14,710 His mind is always on the sound. 782 00:44:19,823 --> 00:44:21,723 He's written himself into a situation where 783 00:44:21,859 --> 00:44:23,258 he doesn't really ever get to have a day off. 784 00:44:23,394 --> 00:44:24,986 You know, where if he's like, 785 00:44:25,129 --> 00:44:26,687 "I'm just not going to write today" 786 00:44:26,864 --> 00:44:30,095 then there's like thirty-five people saying, 787 00:44:31,335 --> 00:44:32,859 "Where's the manuscript? 788 00:44:33,003 --> 00:44:34,561 Like, what's going on! We need this thing!" 789 00:44:37,441 --> 00:44:38,601 Wait a second, wait a second. 790 00:44:39,343 --> 00:44:40,241 Solo Strings! 791 00:44:40,577 --> 00:44:41,305 What are you crazy! 792 00:44:41,445 --> 00:44:42,104 Well. 793 00:44:43,380 --> 00:44:45,143 You keep this a secret from me until now! 794 00:44:45,282 --> 00:44:48,809 I'm sorry. Can we reassign it? 795 00:44:49,219 --> 00:44:50,117 Yeah. 796 00:44:50,454 --> 00:44:51,386 But it's kind of nice sounding. 797 00:44:51,522 --> 00:44:52,352 Let me hear it anyway. 798 00:44:52,489 --> 00:44:53,478 Let's hear it. 799 00:44:53,624 --> 00:44:57,458 Philip doesn't participate in that composer as deity, 800 00:44:57,594 --> 00:44:59,425 Iike Wagnerian bullshit thing. 801 00:44:59,563 --> 00:45:01,758 I love the sound of the string sextet. 802 00:45:01,899 --> 00:45:02,558 Like for instance, 803 00:45:02,700 --> 00:45:05,066 I really, really don't want to do that as a string sextet. 804 00:45:05,369 --> 00:45:06,495 For example! 805 00:45:07,871 --> 00:45:09,736 I seemed to of talked him out of it. 806 00:45:10,174 --> 00:45:11,402 So, that's a victory for the day. 807 00:45:19,183 --> 00:45:22,675 Generally speaking, the more secure the filmmaker is about his art, 808 00:45:22,886 --> 00:45:24,717 the easier he is to work with. 809 00:45:25,089 --> 00:45:27,057 They know what they're doing and if you know what you are doing, 810 00:45:27,191 --> 00:45:28,681 then they're happy to let it work. 811 00:45:28,892 --> 00:45:32,020 The difficulty that you as a filmmaker may have 812 00:45:32,262 --> 00:45:35,095 is not being able to talk in the language of music. 813 00:45:35,232 --> 00:45:38,998 However, it's my job to make that language available to you. 814 00:45:42,206 --> 00:45:43,138 Hi Woody. 815 00:45:43,474 --> 00:45:45,533 I got the length wrong. 816 00:45:45,676 --> 00:45:46,506 I don't know how that happened. 817 00:45:46,643 --> 00:45:50,807 I should have been out by then and I'm not. 818 00:45:50,981 --> 00:45:52,278 When we saw the picture - 819 00:45:52,516 --> 00:45:54,006 we couldn't think - what kind of score is it? 820 00:45:54,151 --> 00:45:56,585 It's not a jazz score, it's not a Cole Porter score. 821 00:45:56,720 --> 00:45:58,085 I just did an opera score. 822 00:45:58,222 --> 00:46:00,281 It's not a classical music score. 823 00:46:00,424 --> 00:46:03,257 We could do, but it would be a little cliched. 824 00:46:03,393 --> 00:46:09,662 And then it was though six heads turned and everyone said, 825 00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:11,392 "Philip Glass" together. 826 00:46:18,876 --> 00:46:23,336 Philip does "Existential Dread" better than anybody. 827 00:46:25,082 --> 00:46:30,645 It's the ideal music for creating emotion. 828 00:46:35,726 --> 00:46:38,752 One person who does know music that well is Errol Morris. 829 00:46:40,497 --> 00:46:42,795 He was a prodigy cellist at the Juilliard 830 00:46:42,933 --> 00:46:44,423 School before he was a filmmaker. 831 00:46:44,635 --> 00:46:46,796 So, when I write music for him... 832 00:46:47,070 --> 00:46:49,129 ...He asks me to send him the score and he plays it. 833 00:46:50,908 --> 00:46:52,341 And you think that makes it easier? 834 00:46:53,143 --> 00:46:54,974 No. It makes it harder! 835 00:46:57,080 --> 00:46:58,707 I remember he was quoted at that time 836 00:46:58,849 --> 00:47:00,908 calling me a "benevolent maniac". 837 00:47:05,489 --> 00:47:07,753 There would be discussions in the editing room. 838 00:47:08,125 --> 00:47:11,788 I've got to find someone to write music like Philip Glass. 839 00:47:11,995 --> 00:47:14,327 And then of course the conclusion, the best 840 00:47:14,464 --> 00:47:20,369 person to write music like Philip Glass was this guy. 841 00:47:20,737 --> 00:47:23,069 The impersonator. The great imposter! 842 00:47:23,207 --> 00:47:28,406 The best Philip Glass impersonator to be found! 843 00:47:30,881 --> 00:47:32,974 The two most important film people 844 00:47:33,116 --> 00:47:35,676 -that I began to work with at exactly the same time - 845 00:47:35,819 --> 00:47:37,582 was Godfrey Reggio and Errol Morris. 846 00:47:37,955 --> 00:47:39,650 I made three movies with each of them, 847 00:47:40,023 --> 00:47:44,357 oddly enough, and over the period of twenty-five years. 848 00:47:44,494 --> 00:47:46,257 And they work in completely different ways. 849 00:47:46,396 --> 00:47:47,624 Jew, Jesuit. 850 00:47:52,669 --> 00:47:55,137 For the film "KOYAANISQATSI," 851 00:47:55,272 --> 00:47:58,730 I wanted to create images that had more to say 852 00:47:58,876 --> 00:48:00,810 than our language can speak. 853 00:48:01,445 --> 00:48:03,106 And I felt that they should have 854 00:48:03,247 --> 00:48:07,206 the emotive armchair of an original composition. 855 00:48:07,818 --> 00:48:11,481 In that sense the composer can become a true collaborator. 856 00:48:12,789 --> 00:48:17,886 He created a relationship where we were actually working as equals. 857 00:48:18,028 --> 00:48:20,394 So, that I would sometimes write the music before the film, 858 00:48:20,530 --> 00:48:22,555 or the music would come after the film, 859 00:48:22,699 --> 00:48:26,135 but the editing -the whole post-production 860 00:48:26,336 --> 00:48:27,200 -we did together. 861 00:48:28,472 --> 00:48:30,633 And his studio was usually right next to mine. 862 00:48:31,074 --> 00:48:32,598 I would be there every afternoon. 863 00:48:32,910 --> 00:48:35,105 And we looked at images and music together all the time. 864 00:48:35,445 --> 00:48:38,141 So, that was as complete a collaboration that 865 00:48:38,282 --> 00:48:40,147 you can find with a filmmaker. 866 00:48:42,252 --> 00:48:45,085 He has created a musical language that 867 00:48:45,222 --> 00:48:48,589 is the acoustic door to the unknown. 868 00:48:48,892 --> 00:48:50,985 Something possessed of an enormous 869 00:48:51,128 --> 00:48:53,187 complexity in it's simplicity. 870 00:48:53,330 --> 00:48:55,594 Like an ever ascending score 871 00:48:55,732 --> 00:48:58,394 that never reached to the heavens. 872 00:49:01,805 --> 00:49:07,869 Eisenstein says that the epitome of the relationship between composer 873 00:49:08,011 --> 00:49:12,675 and filmmaker is that one should end up being able to... 874 00:49:12,816 --> 00:49:16,115 ...See the music and hear the image. 875 00:49:54,224 --> 00:49:58,558 The music is bathed in that which is sinister 876 00:49:58,695 --> 00:50:00,526 and foreboding right from the start. 877 00:50:00,664 --> 00:50:02,154 Yes. Is that OK? 878 00:50:03,266 --> 00:50:04,233 I think so. 879 00:50:04,368 --> 00:50:07,667 When I see the whole picture together 880 00:50:07,804 --> 00:50:10,398 we may suddenly look at it and say, 881 00:50:10,540 --> 00:50:13,475 "Well too much is given away in the beginning." Or not. 882 00:50:13,610 --> 00:50:17,102 Or no, it's completely arresting at the beginning 883 00:50:17,247 --> 00:50:20,273 and it would be very boring 884 00:50:20,684 --> 00:50:27,920 if the music didn't propel you forward with that sense of anticipation. 885 00:50:28,058 --> 00:50:29,685 So, I don't really know. 886 00:50:29,826 --> 00:50:32,420 Of course, what you find out very Quickly, 887 00:50:32,562 --> 00:50:34,029 is that the filmmaker... 888 00:50:34,164 --> 00:50:35,529 ... He's always going to win! 889 00:50:35,665 --> 00:50:36,757 So, you put up as much of a fight 890 00:50:36,900 --> 00:50:39,027 as you want to and after awhile you give up. 891 00:50:39,469 --> 00:50:42,870 It's the old story: we got stuck on the temp score. 892 00:50:44,107 --> 00:50:47,873 And I remember, during the mixing of the film 893 00:50:48,011 --> 00:50:52,880 that there was an issue about certain gongs. 894 00:50:55,152 --> 00:50:57,518 Marty is one of the best filmmakers on the planet 895 00:50:57,654 --> 00:50:59,087 and he was very easy to work with. 896 00:50:59,823 --> 00:51:02,690 "Kundun" had maybe thirty-six or thirty-eight cues. 897 00:51:02,826 --> 00:51:06,387 He had serious comments about maybe four or five of them. 898 00:51:06,563 --> 00:51:08,758 Certain gongs, we said, had to be the old ones! 899 00:51:09,666 --> 00:51:11,099 And they had gotten some new gongs in. 900 00:51:11,234 --> 00:51:12,792 I am sorry, but it's true! 901 00:51:13,370 --> 00:51:15,031 I think, they had really been very proud of 902 00:51:15,172 --> 00:51:17,800 the sound of the new gong that they had gotten in there. 903 00:51:17,941 --> 00:51:19,374 And we just tried it in the mix, 904 00:51:19,509 --> 00:51:20,533 and we all looked at each other and said, 905 00:51:20,710 --> 00:51:22,075 "l don't know, I don't know." 906 00:51:22,212 --> 00:51:23,679 It's a hard argument to have with someone 907 00:51:23,814 --> 00:51:24,906 who knows so much! 908 00:51:25,048 --> 00:51:26,140 And he always wins! 909 00:51:28,251 --> 00:51:31,118 I think, I'd like to get through Reel Three by Friday. 910 00:51:32,289 --> 00:51:34,348 You'll just have to stay up a little later tonight. 911 00:51:35,225 --> 00:51:38,456 I'm always so conscious about shooting down 912 00:51:38,595 --> 00:51:40,893 what the composers come in with. 913 00:51:41,031 --> 00:51:42,589 That's one of the reasons why I don't like to work with them 914 00:51:42,732 --> 00:51:44,529 because they come in, they work hard on stuff, 915 00:51:44,668 --> 00:51:47,728 and then I don't think it's really right, and I tell them. 916 00:51:47,871 --> 00:51:49,304 And they try again, 917 00:51:49,439 --> 00:51:52,374 and then by the fourth try they're starting to get upset, 918 00:51:52,509 --> 00:51:55,740 and it's a nerve-racking process for everybody. 919 00:51:55,879 --> 00:51:59,110 But Philip's got a very cavalier attitude about this stuff. 920 00:51:59,249 --> 00:52:01,444 I mean he goes home, he writes it that night. 921 00:52:02,752 --> 00:52:05,653 If it's not right he's the first one to dump it 922 00:52:05,789 --> 00:52:11,591 and couldn't care less and writes two new cues the next night. 923 00:52:11,728 --> 00:52:14,697 It's unusual. 924 00:52:14,865 --> 00:52:18,631 The actual process of working together, 925 00:52:18,768 --> 00:52:21,566 it was a bit harrowing. 926 00:52:22,205 --> 00:52:25,265 What sort of things did that entail? 927 00:52:25,609 --> 00:52:27,873 Communication. Basic communication. 928 00:52:29,045 --> 00:52:31,275 Like this is up and that's down. 929 00:52:32,582 --> 00:52:33,742 This is right and that's left. 930 00:52:33,884 --> 00:52:34,475 Very basic things! 931 00:52:34,618 --> 00:52:35,550 Like we could see things very differently. 932 00:52:35,685 --> 00:52:37,243 Am I allowed to talk about this? 933 00:52:37,387 --> 00:52:40,447 Collaborations properly speaking should be difficult. 934 00:52:41,525 --> 00:52:42,617 Why not! 935 00:52:45,095 --> 00:52:49,361 It's two people struggling to produce something 936 00:52:49,499 --> 00:52:51,330 they may not have the same interests, 937 00:52:51,468 --> 00:52:53,629 they may in fact have divergent interests. 938 00:52:53,770 --> 00:52:58,332 But if it works, it works very powerfully. 939 00:53:03,613 --> 00:53:07,174 It has to do with, I guess, some kind of temperament 940 00:53:07,317 --> 00:53:09,683 or some kind of chemistry that happens between people. 941 00:53:15,392 --> 00:53:19,852 It takes, I'd say, pretty well a lifetime to figure it out. 942 00:53:35,345 --> 00:53:36,972 Backstage at the Arts Centre. 943 00:53:38,848 --> 00:53:41,817 Isn't it a glamorous profession! 944 00:53:53,430 --> 00:53:56,194 One of the things that's been most interesting for me 945 00:53:56,333 --> 00:54:00,167 is finding the engine of change in my work. 946 00:54:02,005 --> 00:54:03,370 How do you continue to grow? 947 00:54:04,708 --> 00:54:09,077 And my technique is through collaboration. 948 00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:12,139 Ladies and gentleman, the call is fifteen minutes. 949 00:54:12,282 --> 00:54:13,715 Fifteen minutes to the top of the show. 950 00:54:13,850 --> 00:54:14,874 Fifteen. 951 00:54:15,185 --> 00:54:16,311 Time to put on my underwear. 952 00:54:25,962 --> 00:54:27,520 The kangaroo is his totem. 953 00:54:27,964 --> 00:54:28,521 Is that right? 954 00:54:28,665 --> 00:54:31,133 That's on his shirt. Just so you know. 955 00:54:31,268 --> 00:54:31,893 OK. 956 00:54:58,295 --> 00:55:00,627 We always think of music as this medium 957 00:55:00,764 --> 00:55:02,425 that crosses borders 958 00:55:02,565 --> 00:55:06,399 and I had begun working with Ravi Shankar in 1964. 959 00:55:07,470 --> 00:55:08,937 I had already been addressing 960 00:55:09,072 --> 00:55:13,338 the problem of combining Western music with people 961 00:55:13,476 --> 00:55:15,103 Who had a different kind of training. 962 00:55:16,146 --> 00:55:18,410 I began to discover the things that were in common 963 00:55:18,548 --> 00:55:20,209 rather than the things that were different. 964 00:55:20,984 --> 00:55:23,384 All of us had one teacher that we worked with. 965 00:55:25,655 --> 00:55:30,354 The transmission of the technique and the style of the music, 966 00:55:30,493 --> 00:55:33,587 and the tradition of the music 967 00:55:33,730 --> 00:55:35,459 -it's done in the same way - it's a one-on-one tradition. 968 00:55:37,467 --> 00:55:39,560 Then I cross in the front and I go up here. 969 00:55:39,703 --> 00:55:40,328 OK. 970 00:55:40,470 --> 00:55:42,461 My teacher was Nadia Boulanger. 971 00:55:42,739 --> 00:55:44,206 I like the bench if it is the right height, 972 00:55:44,341 --> 00:55:46,241 -but it might not be. -Her teacher was Foray. 973 00:55:47,911 --> 00:55:49,674 It is a person-to-person transmission. 974 00:55:49,813 --> 00:55:52,543 You study with a teacher, that teacher studied with a teacher, 975 00:55:52,682 --> 00:55:53,614 that teacher studied with a teacher. 976 00:55:53,750 --> 00:55:54,739 We're probably only two 977 00:55:54,884 --> 00:55:56,749 or three teachers away from Beethoven! 978 00:55:58,121 --> 00:55:59,213 This is her 979 00:56:01,424 --> 00:56:05,690 Probably, teachers' like that are one in a generation, 980 00:56:05,829 --> 00:56:07,023 if that many. 981 00:56:08,465 --> 00:56:11,798 It was a frightening experience to study with her. 982 00:56:12,802 --> 00:56:13,700 Frightening! 983 00:56:21,444 --> 00:56:24,242 You did not want to make mistakes in her presence. 984 00:56:24,614 --> 00:56:25,945 She could have a tantrum. 985 00:56:26,816 --> 00:56:28,477 The lesson would stop, 986 00:56:28,852 --> 00:56:32,151 and I would be in for a personal assault 987 00:56:32,822 --> 00:56:35,382 on my qualities as a human being. 988 00:56:35,525 --> 00:56:40,121 I would crawl out of the room. 989 00:56:40,530 --> 00:56:42,361 You just didn't want to go through that twice. 990 00:56:44,401 --> 00:56:46,301 After that I never brought any mistakes. 991 00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:50,968 She started me from the beginning 992 00:56:51,441 --> 00:56:53,409 and she made me redo my whole technique. 993 00:56:54,177 --> 00:56:58,637 It was a kind of athleticism, but a kind of musical muscle building. 994 00:57:01,184 --> 00:57:05,052 She gave me a complete confidence in what I could do. 995 00:57:09,893 --> 00:57:11,827 She took you to a level of musicianship 996 00:57:11,961 --> 00:57:14,395 That you were incapable of getting to by yourself. 997 00:57:18,301 --> 00:57:20,792 I can say truly that there's not a note of music 998 00:57:20,937 --> 00:57:21,995 I've written since that time 999 00:57:22,138 --> 00:57:25,403 that was not a result of the time I spent with her. 1000 00:57:26,709 --> 00:57:31,476 She took me from being a graduate of Juilliard to being a composer. 1001 00:58:15,525 --> 00:58:18,824 Kartik, the sitar player, he plays Ravi's compositions. 1002 00:58:18,962 --> 00:58:21,396 Because Ravi's eighty-five and is not on the road with us. 1003 00:58:23,433 --> 00:58:26,197 Well I am a protege of master Ravi Shankar. 1004 00:58:26,336 --> 00:58:28,031 As you know, he and Philip collaborated 1005 00:58:28,171 --> 00:58:30,139 on this particular composition that I'm playing. 1006 00:58:31,975 --> 00:58:34,341 In lndia, if you have a teacher you are his student 1007 00:58:34,444 --> 00:58:36,969 until he leaves this earth. 1008 00:58:37,113 --> 00:58:39,673 And Ravi is still here so, for that matter, 1009 00:58:39,816 --> 00:58:41,340 he's my teacher too. 1010 00:58:41,718 --> 00:58:42,309 Hello. 1011 00:58:42,452 --> 00:58:43,578 This is Marlowe. 1012 00:58:44,053 --> 00:58:44,985 Hello. 1013 00:58:46,222 --> 00:58:50,352 I was hired to be Ravi Shankar's assistant on a film. 1014 00:58:51,027 --> 00:58:52,392 I didn't know anything about lndian music, 1015 00:58:52,529 --> 00:58:54,895 but you have to remember this was '62/ '63. 1016 00:58:55,031 --> 00:58:56,862 The Beatles hadn't gone to lndia yet. 1017 00:58:57,166 --> 00:58:59,498 And I had to notate his music and I had to do it 1018 00:58:59,636 --> 00:59:03,402 on the spot with sixteen musicians waiting for the parts. 1019 00:59:03,540 --> 00:59:04,564 He did it! 1020 00:59:06,976 --> 00:59:08,136 Look at that! 1021 00:59:08,278 --> 00:59:10,007 That was my first encounter with Ravi. 1022 00:59:10,747 --> 00:59:12,214 I've been learning from him ever since. 1023 00:59:12,348 --> 00:59:13,747 You're the Junior Superman. 1024 00:59:13,883 --> 00:59:14,747 He's a born teacher. 1025 00:59:14,884 --> 00:59:18,081 When you're in his presence he begins to teach you. 1026 00:59:22,859 --> 00:59:25,692 The structure of the music is very different from Western music. 1027 00:59:26,829 --> 00:59:29,491 In Western music, you can say in an oversimple way, 1028 00:59:29,632 --> 00:59:31,600 that the tension of the music is 1029 00:59:31,734 --> 00:59:35,135 between the harmonic movement and the melody. 1030 00:59:35,538 --> 00:59:37,096 And lndian music is different. 1031 00:59:37,340 --> 00:59:40,798 The dynamic is between the rhythm and the melody. 1032 00:59:41,311 --> 00:59:42,505 There's no harmonic movement. 1033 00:59:42,979 --> 00:59:46,380 Suddenly, the whole parameters have changed. 1034 01:00:16,713 --> 01:00:17,645 I was writing down the music 1035 01:00:17,780 --> 01:00:20,305 and I would play it back and he said, "No, no, no. 1036 01:00:20,450 --> 01:00:22,077 The accents are wrong, the accents are wrong, 1037 01:00:22,218 --> 01:00:23,185 the accents are wrong." 1038 01:00:24,387 --> 01:00:25,752 And he kept saying that 1039 01:00:25,888 --> 01:00:27,685 "All the beats are the same, all the beats are the same." 1040 01:00:27,824 --> 01:00:29,052 I didn't know what he meant. 1041 01:00:30,226 --> 01:00:33,491 And finally when I realized that if I looked at it in a certain way, 1042 01:00:33,630 --> 01:00:34,221 I could see that... 1043 01:00:34,364 --> 01:00:36,559 ... Everything added up to sixteen. 1044 01:00:37,066 --> 01:00:39,034 I said, "Oh, every phrase is sixteen." 1045 01:00:39,168 --> 01:00:41,398 I said, "Oh. Then let me have a bar line here, 1046 01:00:41,537 --> 01:00:42,265 a bar line there." 1047 01:00:42,405 --> 01:00:43,804 And I got rid of all the other bar lines. 1048 01:00:43,940 --> 01:00:45,202 And then I played it for him. 1049 01:00:45,908 --> 01:00:47,773 And he said, "Yes. That's right." 1050 01:00:48,511 --> 01:00:50,069 I said, "l see! All the beats are the same." 1051 01:00:50,213 --> 01:00:52,078 He said, "All the beats are the same!" 1052 01:00:52,248 --> 01:00:54,375 And I said, "Oh, that was it." 1053 01:01:06,095 --> 01:01:09,292 It was a moment when I understood what I was interested in. 1054 01:01:11,768 --> 01:01:12,735 It was my moment. 1055 01:01:16,372 --> 01:01:20,536 I saw that this was a door into another world of music. 1056 01:01:26,349 --> 01:01:28,408 I knew there was a music there to be written 1057 01:01:28,584 --> 01:01:31,849 that had to do with combining two different languages. 1058 01:01:35,692 --> 01:01:38,217 An intersection of Eastern and Western music 1059 01:01:38,361 --> 01:01:42,627 that could become extremely productive. 1060 01:01:42,765 --> 01:01:44,630 I saw that right in front of me. 1061 01:01:49,305 --> 01:01:51,296 It is almost like I spent my days with 1062 01:01:51,574 --> 01:01:54,509 Boulanger and my evenings with Ravi Shankar. 1063 01:01:54,644 --> 01:01:57,704 I became the child of them both in a way. 1064 01:02:01,484 --> 01:02:05,352 She taught through terror and he taught through love. 1065 01:02:06,656 --> 01:02:08,556 And the results are pretty much the same. 1066 01:02:12,095 --> 01:02:16,088 The collision of their intellects happened inside of me. 1067 01:03:05,648 --> 01:03:06,512 What was the result of that? 1068 01:03:06,649 --> 01:03:08,116 The result was... 1069 01:03:10,653 --> 01:03:12,883 I had the ability to write music that was 1070 01:03:13,022 --> 01:03:16,924 So radical that I could be mistaken for an idiot! 1071 01:03:17,660 --> 01:03:22,029 And I was often. I still am! To this day! 1072 01:03:26,502 --> 01:03:29,403 And yet, it absolutely didn't bother me. 1073 01:03:34,977 --> 01:03:37,673 I came back to New York in '67. 1074 01:03:37,814 --> 01:03:39,782 By '68 I had my ensemble together. 1075 01:03:40,583 --> 01:03:42,642 And within nine years of my return, 1076 01:03:42,785 --> 01:03:44,309 I was at the Metropolitan Opera. 1077 01:04:17,386 --> 01:04:20,116 It was as if all of the downtown 1078 01:04:20,256 --> 01:04:23,350 New York art scene had decided to attend the performance. 1079 01:04:25,862 --> 01:04:28,126 So, it was close to four-thousand people every night. 1080 01:04:29,665 --> 01:04:31,997 I remember, I was backstage at one point, 1081 01:04:32,134 --> 01:04:33,362 and I was standing next to someone 1082 01:04:33,502 --> 01:04:34,628 who was running the place. 1083 01:04:36,305 --> 01:04:38,865 He said, "Who are these people? " 1084 01:04:39,775 --> 01:04:45,441 I was feeling very cocky at the time and I said, 1085 01:04:45,581 --> 01:04:47,139 "Well, you better find out who they are 1086 01:04:47,283 --> 01:04:48,682 because this is your future." 1087 01:04:49,118 --> 01:04:50,881 This is a very famous picture 1088 01:04:51,020 --> 01:04:56,287 by Mapplethorpe of Philip and Bob Wilson. 1089 01:04:57,827 --> 01:04:59,055 The important thing about 1090 01:04:59,195 --> 01:05:01,186 "Einstein", it was such a... 1091 01:05:02,965 --> 01:05:04,330 ... is seminal the right word? 1092 01:05:04,467 --> 01:05:06,731 But anyhow, it was such a big deal. 1093 01:05:06,869 --> 01:05:09,030 I mean a lot of things that we take 1094 01:05:09,171 --> 01:05:11,662 for granted about music and about performance 1095 01:05:11,807 --> 01:05:14,401 and all that stuff that other people are doing, 1096 01:05:14,543 --> 01:05:16,101 Bob and Philip did. 1097 01:05:29,258 --> 01:05:30,589 My mother was there. 1098 01:05:30,726 --> 01:05:33,695 She'd seen me in 1968, eight years before, 1099 01:05:34,196 --> 01:05:37,256 playing in a large auditorium in 1100 01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:39,891 which there were six people in the audience 1101 01:05:40,069 --> 01:05:41,093 and she was one of them. 1102 01:05:41,737 --> 01:05:43,830 Eight years later she came back to New York, and... 1103 01:05:44,340 --> 01:05:45,602 I don't know what she thought! 1104 01:05:45,942 --> 01:05:48,308 What had happened in such a short period of time! 1105 01:05:48,544 --> 01:05:50,136 But she was supportive. 1106 01:05:50,413 --> 01:05:55,009 And my father probably just shrugged his shoulders. 1107 01:05:55,217 --> 01:05:56,946 There's my father up there. 1108 01:05:57,186 --> 01:05:59,848 There's this long period he didn't talk to Philip. 1109 01:06:00,356 --> 01:06:01,653 It was so stupid. 1110 01:06:05,227 --> 01:06:06,194 Stupid. 1111 01:06:07,229 --> 01:06:10,630 But, Philip's personality is similar to my father's. 1112 01:06:10,766 --> 01:06:12,028 They're very stubborn. 1113 01:06:14,337 --> 01:06:16,669 It was something that was troubling him. 1114 01:06:18,174 --> 01:06:21,075 It wasn't troubling on my side. 1115 01:06:21,711 --> 01:06:22,769 It sounds unusual -usually it's 1116 01:06:22,912 --> 01:06:25,073 the younger man that runs away - 1117 01:06:25,214 --> 01:06:27,682 but in this case it was the older man that did. 1118 01:06:29,285 --> 01:06:30,912 Well he didn't like JoAnne. 1119 01:06:35,124 --> 01:06:37,319 That was the most of it. 1120 01:06:39,328 --> 01:06:41,523 Parents are such jerks some of the time. 1121 01:06:43,165 --> 01:06:44,496 Don't quote me. 1122 01:06:47,269 --> 01:06:48,930 The week before the week before he died 1123 01:06:49,071 --> 01:06:52,598 he died in a car accident so, we didn't know it would be that week 1124 01:06:52,842 --> 01:06:57,074 we met again and he opened that door again. 1125 01:06:57,213 --> 01:07:00,148 But we didn't get a chance to talk about it anymore. 1126 01:07:12,995 --> 01:07:14,860 Great "Einstein" stories. 1127 01:07:14,997 --> 01:07:18,558 We went to watch "Einstein" with Bob Wilson's parents 1128 01:07:18,701 --> 01:07:20,396 who also didn't have a clue. 1129 01:07:21,003 --> 01:07:23,062 They just rolled their eyes. 1130 01:07:23,205 --> 01:07:24,797 They didn't know what was going on. 1131 01:07:25,274 --> 01:07:28,334 My mother turned around to Wilson and said, 1132 01:07:28,511 --> 01:07:30,502 "Did you know this was going on in Robert's head? 1133 01:07:30,646 --> 01:07:31,613 I certainly didn't know it 1134 01:07:31,747 --> 01:07:33,237 was going on in Philip's head." 1135 01:07:38,587 --> 01:07:39,781 When "Einstein" was playing, 1136 01:07:39,922 --> 01:07:42,982 The New Yorker ran this cartoon. 1137 01:07:43,492 --> 01:07:44,857 What does it say? 1138 01:07:45,161 --> 01:07:47,220 It says, "Those drums tapping incessantly 1139 01:07:47,363 --> 01:07:49,957 With barely a change of timbre or rhythm, 1140 01:07:50,099 --> 01:07:53,330 do you suppose it could be something by Philip Glass? " 1141 01:07:53,602 --> 01:07:54,466 We went crazy. 1142 01:07:54,603 --> 01:07:55,865 It was in The New Yorker! 1143 01:08:37,680 --> 01:08:38,977 Let me tell you what I've done. 1144 01:08:39,715 --> 01:08:41,910 And then here, we have B natural there. 1145 01:08:42,051 --> 01:08:43,348 I've had to change the trumpet. 1146 01:08:43,486 --> 01:08:47,320 -But you agreed to that. -That's right. That's the same thing. 1147 01:08:47,456 --> 01:08:48,980 That's done. That's right. 1148 01:08:49,158 --> 01:08:51,718 Now there's something that I saw, look on page twenty-one. 1149 01:08:52,027 --> 01:08:54,086 I don't remember doing this 1150 01:08:54,530 --> 01:08:58,057 -of course that doesn't mean anything but look at that timpani. 1151 01:08:58,200 --> 01:08:59,599 What the hell is the timpani doing there? 1152 01:09:00,169 --> 01:09:00,931 Where? 1153 01:09:01,170 --> 01:09:03,638 I changed that. I just took the trills off. 1154 01:09:03,772 --> 01:09:04,898 What is that doing there? 1155 01:09:05,040 --> 01:09:06,439 -I have no idea. -You wrote that. 1156 01:09:06,575 --> 01:09:10,443 -I didn't write that. -lt doesn't mean anything. 1157 01:09:10,579 --> 01:09:12,171 No, it doesn't mean anything. 1158 01:09:13,048 --> 01:09:15,243 I don't think that trill's right either. 1159 01:09:15,384 --> 01:09:16,146 Which trill? 1160 01:09:16,285 --> 01:09:17,718 In the trombone. 1161 01:09:20,256 --> 01:09:22,417 You'll hear it today and if you don't like it you can take it out. 1162 01:09:22,558 --> 01:09:23,081 What was that? 1163 01:09:23,225 --> 01:09:25,022 You'll hear it today and if you don't like it you can take it out. 1164 01:09:25,161 --> 01:09:26,492 I don't think I wrote it. 1165 01:09:30,399 --> 01:09:32,993 I'm very happy to welcome you to my city. 1166 01:09:33,135 --> 01:09:35,228 Not only my city, but Brooklyn Academy of Music 1167 01:09:35,371 --> 01:09:37,066 is an artistic home for me. 1168 01:09:37,273 --> 01:09:37,705 It's very important. 1169 01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:40,104 And that you are premiering 1170 01:09:40,242 --> 01:09:43,109 the "Symphony" means a lot to me personally. 1171 01:09:43,245 --> 01:09:45,372 I want to thank you for all the effort, 1172 01:09:45,514 --> 01:09:50,076 And please, welcome to my home. 1173 01:12:26,642 --> 01:12:27,768 Where does music come from? 1174 01:12:30,713 --> 01:12:32,010 My experience with music is that 1175 01:12:32,147 --> 01:12:34,547 it's like an underground river that's always there. 1176 01:12:36,085 --> 01:12:38,349 And like an underground river you, don't know where it comes from 1177 01:12:38,487 --> 01:12:39,977 and you don't know where it's going. 1178 01:12:41,090 --> 01:12:43,684 The only difference is whether you're listening to it or not. 1179 01:12:52,201 --> 01:12:54,192 For me writing music is listening to music. 1180 01:12:55,104 --> 01:12:58,904 I don't think of it, I listen to it. 1181 01:12:59,708 --> 01:13:01,300 In other words, it's already there. 1182 01:13:01,443 --> 01:13:03,206 It's not something that has to be imagined. 1183 01:13:04,380 --> 01:13:05,904 It has to be written down. 1184 01:13:12,855 --> 01:13:13,981 Drawing is about seeing. 1185 01:13:14,556 --> 01:13:15,921 Dancing is about moving. 1186 01:13:16,158 --> 01:13:17,147 Poetry about speaking. 1187 01:13:18,761 --> 01:13:20,092 And music about listening. 1188 01:13:23,265 --> 01:13:26,632 I never was inclined to be involved with the theoretical ideas of music 1189 01:13:26,769 --> 01:13:28,430 that would have been about thinking - 1190 01:13:28,837 --> 01:13:31,305 I didn't care about theories of music. 1191 01:13:31,473 --> 01:13:32,963 I cared about listening to music. 1192 01:13:38,547 --> 01:13:41,846 I begin by hearing very little, very little. 1193 01:13:41,984 --> 01:13:45,511 I hear something and I've trained myself to follow the sound. 1194 01:13:45,654 --> 01:13:50,785 Follow the thought of the sound to follow the sound of the sound. 1195 01:13:50,926 --> 01:13:52,860 And eventually I'll hear what it is. 1196 01:13:58,400 --> 01:14:01,836 Let's say that you woke up in the morning 1197 01:14:01,970 --> 01:14:04,837 and you looked out across the field 1198 01:14:04,973 --> 01:14:07,032 and it's very foggy - you can't see very much. 1199 01:14:07,543 --> 01:14:10,740 If you wait a little bit you will start to see the outline of the tree. 1200 01:14:11,513 --> 01:14:15,449 And maybe with time you'll see a building. 1201 01:14:15,784 --> 01:14:18,617 And in time you might eventually be able to see everything 1202 01:14:18,987 --> 01:14:20,249 that's in that field. 1203 01:14:20,756 --> 01:14:23,953 And that's the way that listening is for me. 1204 01:14:28,564 --> 01:14:29,394 With the "Eighth Symphony", 1205 01:14:29,531 --> 01:14:30,896 I had a great difficulty with that, 1206 01:14:31,033 --> 01:14:32,830 and Dennis had difficulty with it too. 1207 01:14:33,402 --> 01:14:36,064 I finished writing the symphony and then we started looking at it 1208 01:14:36,205 --> 01:14:37,433 and we began questioning the notes: 1209 01:14:37,573 --> 01:14:41,168 Is this an E flat or A natural? Is this a B or...? 1210 01:14:41,343 --> 01:14:41,900 And I said to him, 1211 01:14:42,044 --> 01:14:45,172 "Dennis when I wrote this I was at the limits of what I could hear." 1212 01:14:45,314 --> 01:14:46,747 I could barely hear it. 1213 01:14:47,416 --> 01:14:49,509 I'm writing down what, I think I heard, 1214 01:14:49,651 --> 01:14:51,016 but I'm not really sure. 1215 01:14:53,155 --> 01:14:56,215 Maybe that's too frank an admission to make, 1216 01:14:56,358 --> 01:14:59,156 but it happens to be what happened. 1217 01:15:02,698 --> 01:15:04,996 What I have become content with 1218 01:15:05,133 --> 01:15:09,502 is to see music as a mystery, and I leave it at that. 1219 01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:25,214 Is that what you thought? 1220 01:15:25,354 --> 01:15:27,322 Yeah, that's it. 1221 01:15:37,900 --> 01:15:39,492 You're a Buddhist, right? 1222 01:15:39,701 --> 01:15:40,429 No, no. 1223 01:15:40,569 --> 01:15:41,763 You're not? I read that you're a Buddhist. 1224 01:15:41,904 --> 01:15:43,269 I read the same thing! 1225 01:15:44,473 --> 01:15:50,139 You might say I'm a Taoist, I'm a Hindu, I'm Jewish, I'm Christian. 1226 01:15:50,279 --> 01:15:53,214 I mean it's true I'm interested in all of these things. 1227 01:15:53,348 --> 01:15:55,578 But I can't say that I'm exclusively anything. 1228 01:16:44,967 --> 01:16:49,870 In the Taoist concept, there's only one consciousness. 1229 01:16:50,439 --> 01:16:54,705 And we label that as "mind consciousness" 1230 01:16:55,510 --> 01:16:57,410 and "body consciousness". 1231 01:16:57,713 --> 01:17:00,580 They speak different languages but they're really one. 1232 01:17:04,620 --> 01:17:09,455 When I touch Philip, the body consciousness 1233 01:17:09,591 --> 01:17:12,458 speaks to me directly. 1234 01:17:12,894 --> 01:17:14,191 Then I know what to do. 1235 01:17:14,563 --> 01:17:16,190 I don't have to ask him. 1236 01:17:23,338 --> 01:17:25,033 Qi Gong was a very hard one for me. 1237 01:17:25,173 --> 01:17:27,698 I did it for a long time before I felt anything. 1238 01:17:27,843 --> 01:17:32,075 My son Zack did it -he brought me to Sat Hon 1239 01:17:32,214 --> 01:17:34,580 -and for years Zack would say, 1240 01:17:34,716 --> 01:17:36,240 "Do you feel the Qi? Have you felt the Qi yet??' 1241 01:17:36,385 --> 01:17:39,115 And I said, "No I haven't felt it" and it went on for years! 1242 01:17:39,321 --> 01:17:42,654 At least five or six years before I finally felt it. 1243 01:17:43,225 --> 01:17:44,249 Oh, that's it! 1244 01:17:48,664 --> 01:17:50,222 It takes great patience on the part of the student 1245 01:17:50,365 --> 01:17:52,356 and on the part of the teacher for that matter. 1246 01:17:55,937 --> 01:17:58,371 The Taoists call someone like Philip 1247 01:17:58,507 --> 01:18:01,670 "Tong shi", which means fellow learner. 1248 01:18:02,744 --> 01:18:04,974 And what we really say is that you cannot 1249 01:18:05,113 --> 01:18:08,742 possibly teach without learning simultaneously. 1250 01:18:09,317 --> 01:18:13,447 And that teaching is just really learning on the other side. 1251 01:18:14,056 --> 01:18:17,958 With a very critical difference, which is I get paid to learn. 1252 01:18:30,605 --> 01:18:33,972 Qi is the foundation of life. 1253 01:18:34,776 --> 01:18:37,210 Qi means breath. 1254 01:18:38,980 --> 01:18:42,711 The basis of Qi Gong is working with one's breath 1255 01:18:43,018 --> 01:18:47,785 and through the breath one contacts the spirit within. 1256 01:18:50,392 --> 01:18:56,456 And it is possible to connect with the sacred. 1257 01:19:01,303 --> 01:19:04,238 One of the things I learned from the yoga teachers years ago 1258 01:19:04,372 --> 01:19:06,863 I learned about maintenance. 1259 01:19:07,709 --> 01:19:09,609 I have a lot of music I want to write 1260 01:19:09,845 --> 01:19:12,609 and in order to do it I better take care of myself. 1261 01:19:13,582 --> 01:19:16,710 With sitting meditation if you don't get enlightened, 1262 01:19:16,852 --> 01:19:17,318 you're stuck. 1263 01:19:17,452 --> 01:19:19,511 But with moving meditation, if you don't get Enlightened... 1264 01:19:19,654 --> 01:19:21,019 ...at least you get healthy! 1265 01:19:39,374 --> 01:19:40,136 Philip's Buddhism... 1266 01:19:40,275 --> 01:19:44,473 He even doesn't talk about the word "Buddhist." 1267 01:19:44,846 --> 01:19:46,336 He doesn't like labels. 1268 01:19:51,186 --> 01:19:53,484 What's so interesting is he has Sat Hon. 1269 01:19:53,622 --> 01:19:55,522 And then he has Gelek Rimpoche, 1270 01:19:55,657 --> 01:19:57,284 who he's known for years, 1271 01:19:57,425 --> 01:20:01,225 and they have a very deep and long running relationship 1272 01:20:01,463 --> 01:20:02,430 Hey! How are you? 1273 01:20:02,564 --> 01:20:03,258 Good to see you. 1274 01:20:03,398 --> 01:20:04,296 Thanks for coming. 1275 01:20:04,432 --> 01:20:05,160 Thank you. 1276 01:20:06,835 --> 01:20:07,699 Thank you. 1277 01:20:10,739 --> 01:20:12,036 You've met Scott. 1278 01:20:12,207 --> 01:20:14,641 -Yes I did. -Hello again. 1279 01:20:14,776 --> 01:20:17,506 Philip wanted to have guidance. 1280 01:20:17,646 --> 01:20:20,274 Getting freedom from... 1281 01:20:20,415 --> 01:20:24,818 negative emotions and negative activities. 1282 01:20:24,953 --> 01:20:32,860 So, how to get rid of hatred, obsession, and even jealousy. 1283 01:20:33,195 --> 01:20:36,130 When the water's boiling would you make the tea? 1284 01:20:36,264 --> 01:20:36,821 Absolutely. 1285 01:20:36,965 --> 01:20:39,832 I mean, that's the least you could do! 1286 01:20:39,968 --> 01:20:42,095 Make the tea and then photograph us! 1287 01:20:42,237 --> 01:20:43,829 OK. It is a deal! 1288 01:20:47,042 --> 01:20:49,840 Philip's practice is private, it's personal and, 1289 01:20:49,978 --> 01:20:52,446 I think, he has a bigger fear of pushing it on people 1290 01:20:52,581 --> 01:20:54,811 than sharing it with people. 1291 01:20:54,950 --> 01:20:57,248 I wish he would share it a little more 1292 01:20:57,385 --> 01:20:58,511 because it's so interesting. 1293 01:20:59,354 --> 01:21:00,878 But he doesn't. He's not like that. 1294 01:21:01,356 --> 01:21:06,760 Actually it's nothing more than developing compassion. 1295 01:21:07,662 --> 01:21:10,631 And not only compassion for yourself, 1296 01:21:10,899 --> 01:21:16,496 but a compassion to your families and your relations. 1297 01:21:17,205 --> 01:21:18,604 And wisdom. 1298 01:21:19,374 --> 01:21:23,811 Wisdom that really cuts through the ego. 1299 01:21:25,847 --> 01:21:28,475 Along the way as you get certain teachings 1300 01:21:28,617 --> 01:21:31,916 and you are initiated into certain practices, 1301 01:21:32,220 --> 01:21:34,688 they become part of commitments that you have. 1302 01:21:34,823 --> 01:21:36,552 I think, Philip's taken a certain amount of commitments 1303 01:21:36,691 --> 01:21:37,680 that require a certain amount of time. 1304 01:21:37,826 --> 01:21:39,225 So, this is what he does everyday. 1305 01:21:39,361 --> 01:21:41,921 But the kids can come down and see him standing on his head. 1306 01:21:42,931 --> 01:21:46,526 He has a sitting room and in that room are offerings. 1307 01:21:46,668 --> 01:21:48,636 There are certain offerings that are made on a daily basis 1308 01:21:48,770 --> 01:21:50,397 and they can participate in that. 1309 01:21:50,538 --> 01:21:54,406 So, in the morning they say, "l want to give water to Buddha." 1310 01:21:54,843 --> 01:21:56,504 And Philip helps them fill some water bowls 1311 01:21:56,645 --> 01:21:58,374 and at the end they get a chocolate. 1312 01:21:59,014 --> 01:22:01,983 And, I think, this is a beautiful thing they do with their dad. 1313 01:22:13,695 --> 01:22:16,630 I met the Dalai Lama for the first time in the '70s. 1314 01:22:17,132 --> 01:22:19,259 I went to Dharamshala - 1315 01:22:19,501 --> 01:22:23,904 that is the residence in exile of the Fourteenth Dalai Lama. 1316 01:22:27,208 --> 01:22:31,110 I had painstakingly learned to say a formal greeting in Tibetan to him. 1317 01:22:31,680 --> 01:22:32,612 I said, 1318 01:22:34,449 --> 01:22:37,577 "When I see your face happiness comes into my mind." 1319 01:22:37,686 --> 01:22:38,914 That was what I said! 1320 01:22:41,222 --> 01:22:43,053 So, I went to see him and I said this thing 1321 01:22:43,191 --> 01:22:45,056 and he looked at me and he burst out laughing. 1322 01:22:45,193 --> 01:22:47,388 He thought I was so funny. 1323 01:22:50,498 --> 01:22:52,932 It's probably, what would be called, 1324 01:22:53,068 --> 01:22:54,831 an inconceivable mansion. 1325 01:22:57,839 --> 01:23:01,172 People often like to focus on the Buddhist part of it, 1326 01:23:01,343 --> 01:23:02,867 but it's actually just part of it. 1327 01:23:03,078 --> 01:23:06,343 It's not been an exclusive interest of mine. 1328 01:23:06,481 --> 01:23:07,812 It's been one of many. 1329 01:23:09,417 --> 01:23:11,749 I met my first teacher when I was twenty. 1330 01:23:11,886 --> 01:23:14,548 I'm seventy, so, that's fifty years I've been knocking 1331 01:23:14,689 --> 01:23:17,180 around meeting all kinds of people 1332 01:23:17,325 --> 01:23:18,758 wearing all kinds of clothing 1333 01:23:18,893 --> 01:23:20,121 and speaking all kinds of languages 1334 01:23:20,261 --> 01:23:22,126 in all kinds of parts of the world. 1335 01:23:22,297 --> 01:23:27,064 And I've come to see that no particular culture 1336 01:23:27,202 --> 01:23:35,837 seems to have a copyright on profound ideas about the world. 1337 01:23:43,184 --> 01:23:45,584 Many people imagine spiritual work 1338 01:23:45,954 --> 01:23:48,422 Iike something you do with your mind and your head. 1339 01:23:51,326 --> 01:23:55,228 But the real Shamanism has to do with really 1340 01:23:55,363 --> 01:23:56,352 putting your body 1341 01:23:56,498 --> 01:24:00,161 -the entirety of what you are - out there in nature. 1342 01:24:00,402 --> 01:24:02,336 Because the connection with nature is 1343 01:24:02,470 --> 01:24:05,871 one of the primary sources from which you learn. 1344 01:24:09,010 --> 01:24:12,207 Victor was willing to take Philip on because Philip was... 1345 01:24:13,148 --> 01:24:17,847 ... Open, had knowledge, was willing to learn. 1346 01:24:18,019 --> 01:24:21,887 He wasn't just somebody looking to get high 1347 01:24:22,023 --> 01:24:23,923 and have some crazy experience - 1348 01:24:24,059 --> 01:24:27,085 Victor doesn't advocate drug use at all. 1349 01:24:27,328 --> 01:24:30,661 He took him on a little sojourn, the first time, 1350 01:24:30,799 --> 01:24:35,236 out into the desert and they did some interesting things out there. 1351 01:24:38,440 --> 01:24:39,498 Very interesting things. 1352 01:24:39,641 --> 01:24:44,772 I couldn't tell you what they are because it's very private. 1353 01:24:45,213 --> 01:24:47,943 What Victor will do will put you in front of something 1354 01:24:48,083 --> 01:24:49,516 and leave you alone with it. 1355 01:24:50,051 --> 01:24:51,143 And you have to figure it out. 1356 01:24:51,286 --> 01:24:53,277 And it can be completely frightening! 1357 01:25:02,564 --> 01:25:05,499 There's one beautiful thing about the mountain. 1358 01:25:06,968 --> 01:25:09,266 There's a beautiful thing about the desert. 1359 01:25:10,672 --> 01:25:12,867 The mountain, the desert, 1360 01:25:13,041 --> 01:25:17,671 nature does not recognize your career, 1361 01:25:18,780 --> 01:25:19,804 your accomplishment. 1362 01:25:21,116 --> 01:25:24,950 You can be the president of the biggest company. 1363 01:25:26,488 --> 01:25:28,752 And yet, when you get to that mountain, 1364 01:25:30,191 --> 01:25:33,024 the slope is not going to be easier for you. 1365 01:25:34,629 --> 01:25:39,589 Nature treats you just as another human being. 1366 01:25:40,301 --> 01:25:42,531 As another living being, who is going to die. 1367 01:25:46,741 --> 01:25:50,507 At sixty-five, I took on a big commitment with his work. 1368 01:25:51,279 --> 01:25:52,837 Most people are retiring 1369 01:25:52,981 --> 01:25:54,471 to the Bahamas and playing golf. 1370 01:25:55,350 --> 01:25:57,614 And I started to do something I never did before. 1371 01:25:57,952 --> 01:26:00,546 Living in the wilderness and climbing mountains 1372 01:26:00,722 --> 01:26:01,848 and all kinds of things. 1373 01:26:03,858 --> 01:26:05,348 I was climbing up a mountain, 1374 01:26:06,461 --> 01:26:07,860 Victor had gone way ahead of me. 1375 01:26:08,363 --> 01:26:10,126 Actually I saw him, he was way up there, 1376 01:26:10,965 --> 01:26:13,991 and I see him and he's waiting, looking down at me. 1377 01:26:17,138 --> 01:26:18,400 And I looked up at him and I waved 1378 01:26:18,540 --> 01:26:19,939 and I continued to climb. 1379 01:26:20,074 --> 01:26:24,272 It took me another forty minutes to get to where he was. 1380 01:26:25,580 --> 01:26:27,047 He was just sitting there. 1381 01:26:27,515 --> 01:26:29,847 I said, "What were you doing Victor? " 1382 01:26:29,984 --> 01:26:31,144 He said, "l was watching you." 1383 01:26:31,853 --> 01:26:37,120 I said, "lt was a very hard climb for me. 1384 01:26:37,725 --> 01:26:41,491 I'm twenty-five years older than you Victor, it's a hard climb." 1385 01:26:41,629 --> 01:26:45,190 And he said, "l had no intention of coming and saving you." 1386 01:26:54,709 --> 01:26:57,337 What would you do Scott? 1387 01:26:57,712 --> 01:26:58,736 I have no idea. 1388 01:26:59,380 --> 01:27:00,438 I hope I would have the nerve to 1389 01:27:00,582 --> 01:27:05,713 put myself in that position of trust in someone. 1390 01:27:08,189 --> 01:27:09,850 Victor wasn't there to help me. 1391 01:27:12,627 --> 01:27:13,491 I couldn't trust Victor. 1392 01:27:13,628 --> 01:27:14,890 He wasn't going to come and save me. 1393 01:27:15,029 --> 01:27:15,791 Yeah. 1394 01:27:16,297 --> 01:27:17,855 What about when he buried you? 1395 01:27:18,666 --> 01:27:20,031 Oh, we don't talk about that. 1396 01:27:35,917 --> 01:27:37,111 All of these people, 1397 01:27:37,385 --> 01:27:40,786 they each speak to something that works in his life really well. 1398 01:27:43,291 --> 01:27:47,694 Philip has incorporated all these ideas to enrich his life. 1399 01:27:48,162 --> 01:27:52,064 In a way that, something was missing from a certain practice 1400 01:27:52,200 --> 01:27:55,761 that he was craving and he slowly found it in another practice. 1401 01:27:58,172 --> 01:28:02,734 The Qi Gong master will say, "Balance your whole life." 1402 01:28:03,778 --> 01:28:05,712 Looking for the otherness 1403 01:28:06,114 --> 01:28:08,605 it's looking for the completion of what we are. 1404 01:28:08,716 --> 01:28:11,480 It doesn't mean you want to reject the everyday consciousness. 1405 01:28:11,619 --> 01:28:13,678 It doesn't mean you don't care about the everyday world. 1406 01:28:13,821 --> 01:28:16,119 It doesn't mean you don't care about your business. 1407 01:28:16,357 --> 01:28:18,188 No. You keep holding this part, 1408 01:28:18,359 --> 01:28:21,795 actually by putting attention in the two sides, 1409 01:28:21,929 --> 01:28:24,727 that brings balance and empowers both sides, 1410 01:28:24,866 --> 01:28:26,800 including what you do in your everyday life. 1411 01:28:28,836 --> 01:28:29,666 Hello. 1412 01:28:30,004 --> 01:28:34,373 Some people completely ignore the material world. 1413 01:28:34,475 --> 01:28:37,933 And put everything in the spiritual world. 1414 01:28:38,079 --> 01:28:40,240 And that's great... for them! 1415 01:28:40,481 --> 01:28:44,247 But we live in the twenty-first century. 1416 01:28:44,652 --> 01:28:48,554 So, the art is now to balance the material 1417 01:28:48,690 --> 01:28:50,783 and the spiritual work together. 1418 01:28:52,427 --> 01:28:58,024 In my opinion, he's a perfect spiritual person 1419 01:28:58,166 --> 01:29:00,760 and very humble person. 1420 01:29:01,102 --> 01:29:03,195 No matter how famous, 1421 01:29:03,338 --> 01:29:06,466 how successful whatever he might be. 1422 01:29:06,674 --> 01:29:08,141 He is one person. 1423 01:29:08,976 --> 01:29:10,967 Just Philip. 1424 01:29:11,412 --> 01:29:13,744 Ummm. 1425 01:29:16,017 --> 01:29:17,678 Where does the G come? 1426 01:29:17,952 --> 01:29:20,785 The five I would like to have would be the G, 1427 01:29:20,988 --> 01:29:21,818 going from the bottom, 1428 01:29:21,956 --> 01:29:25,016 the G, theC, D, theG and the C. 1429 01:29:25,193 --> 01:29:27,320 G, C, D, G, D... 1430 01:29:28,796 --> 01:29:31,264 B flat, B, D, C, C, C... 1431 01:29:31,399 --> 01:29:33,333 Just don't play the G... 1432 01:29:35,470 --> 01:29:36,164 It does have the G. 1433 01:29:36,304 --> 01:29:37,532 Oh, you're right, it doesn't. 1434 01:29:37,672 --> 01:29:39,071 You could add the double bases there, 1435 01:29:39,207 --> 01:29:40,435 but that's too heavy, I think. 1436 01:29:40,575 --> 01:29:41,542 Because I'm going up to. 1437 01:29:42,744 --> 01:29:43,540 I'm up there. 1438 01:29:43,678 --> 01:29:46,078 Oh I found another place for the E flat trumpet at the end! 1439 01:29:48,483 --> 01:29:49,507 "Barbarians!" 1440 01:29:49,951 --> 01:29:51,441 We're getting down to the crunch. 1441 01:30:00,361 --> 01:30:01,885 There's no question that the opera house 1442 01:30:02,029 --> 01:30:03,291 belongs to the composer. 1443 01:30:03,765 --> 01:30:05,198 In the same way that you can say that 1444 01:30:05,333 --> 01:30:07,631 the ballet belongs to the choreographer. 1445 01:30:08,736 --> 01:30:09,668 It belongs! 1446 01:30:12,140 --> 01:30:15,132 Generally speaking, the idea begins with the composer. 1447 01:30:15,243 --> 01:30:16,608 There's an opera that you want to do. 1448 01:30:16,744 --> 01:30:17,972 And it's because of that, 1449 01:30:18,112 --> 01:30:19,739 that you simply keep knocking on doors 1450 01:30:19,881 --> 01:30:21,314 until you get someone to do it. 1451 01:30:21,749 --> 01:30:23,910 And I've been doing that for thirty years. 1452 01:30:27,555 --> 01:30:28,988 In the case of "Barbarians," 1453 01:30:29,123 --> 01:30:31,387 I read the book maybe fifteen years ago. 1454 01:30:32,560 --> 01:30:33,720 At the time it didn't seem 1455 01:30:33,861 --> 01:30:36,694 to be a current subject -it became one. 1456 01:30:39,066 --> 01:30:40,897 In one of the lines of the opera it says, 1457 01:30:41,035 --> 01:30:43,560 "We need a short quick war to preserve the peace." 1458 01:30:46,107 --> 01:30:47,039 The first thing I had to do was 1459 01:30:47,175 --> 01:30:48,836 to find someone who would build the piece. 1460 01:30:49,644 --> 01:30:52,044 Guy Montavon, I'd met a number of times before, 1461 01:30:52,180 --> 01:30:55,081 he came to see me when I was playing in Germany somewhere. 1462 01:30:55,383 --> 01:30:56,611 He said "l have this new opera house, 1463 01:30:56,751 --> 01:30:58,776 and I plan to do a new opera every year, 1464 01:30:59,053 --> 01:31:01,283 and I would like you to be on the third year." 1465 01:31:03,724 --> 01:31:04,452 A number of people have asked me, 1466 01:31:04,592 --> 01:31:05,786 "Well why did you go to Erfurt? " 1467 01:31:05,927 --> 01:31:08,987 Well, they're the people who wanted to do it! 1468 01:31:09,330 --> 01:31:10,729 It's a very simple answer! 1469 01:31:10,998 --> 01:31:14,297 It's not like the Berlin Opera or the Hamburg Opera 1470 01:31:14,435 --> 01:31:18,337 or the Paris Opera were banging down my door to get me to do 1471 01:31:18,473 --> 01:31:20,134 "Waiting For The Barbarians." No! 1472 01:31:20,441 --> 01:31:23,467 There are an awful lot of people who did not want to do this opera. 1473 01:31:29,016 --> 01:31:30,916 I didn't know they were musicians! 1474 01:31:48,069 --> 01:31:49,764 The first person that I talked to was Dennis Davies, 1475 01:31:49,904 --> 01:31:51,769 who would be the music director. 1476 01:31:53,007 --> 01:31:55,908 What he does in the pit is going to determine 1477 01:31:56,043 --> 01:31:57,135 what we to hear. 1478 01:32:02,116 --> 01:32:04,141 Right now, I'm just basically looking for things 1479 01:32:04,285 --> 01:32:07,118 that the orchestra might question at the first rehearsal. 1480 01:32:07,822 --> 01:32:10,882 Pretty much, I hear what I see on the page. 1481 01:32:12,293 --> 01:32:14,853 My job is to see that the singers are 1482 01:32:14,996 --> 01:32:18,124 supported by the orchestra, at the same time, 1483 01:32:18,366 --> 01:32:20,664 not ever covered by the orchestra. 1484 01:32:27,542 --> 01:32:28,531 Philip has become more 1485 01:32:28,676 --> 01:32:31,645 and more adept at scoring his work so, 1486 01:32:31,779 --> 01:32:35,476 that the singers have more of a fighting chance to be heard. 1487 01:32:36,517 --> 01:32:39,645 There's nothing more frustrating than having interesting things to play 1488 01:32:39,787 --> 01:32:41,516 and then have the conductor have to say, 1489 01:32:41,689 --> 01:32:43,156 "But it's too loud. But it's too loud. 1490 01:32:43,291 --> 01:32:44,451 But it's too loud." 1491 01:32:50,598 --> 01:32:55,035 There's always a little space between what you think you hear, 1492 01:32:55,169 --> 01:32:56,727 and what you are going to hear. 1493 01:33:02,376 --> 01:33:03,308 No. No, it won't work. 1494 01:33:03,444 --> 01:33:05,412 With the oboes it will be honky. 1495 01:33:06,047 --> 01:33:07,036 I wouldn't do it. 1496 01:33:07,181 --> 01:33:07,670 Yeah. 1497 01:33:07,815 --> 01:33:08,577 It's very exposed. 1498 01:33:08,716 --> 01:33:10,115 I think, the oboes and the first the flute, 1499 01:33:10,251 --> 01:33:12,549 And the first bassoon will cover it for me. 1500 01:33:13,087 --> 01:33:14,145 We could do that tomorrow night. 1501 01:33:14,288 --> 01:33:16,256 -Did you order? -I forgot to order a sandwich. 1502 01:33:16,390 --> 01:33:17,448 And I am starving! 1503 01:33:19,994 --> 01:33:23,088 Each opera should inhabit a sound universe 1504 01:33:23,230 --> 01:33:24,288 that's unique to it. 1505 01:33:25,399 --> 01:33:27,629 With "Waiting For The Barbarians," 1506 01:33:27,802 --> 01:33:31,738 I wanted a dark sound to go with the dark story. 1507 01:33:32,306 --> 01:33:37,539 I only need to change a few instruments to define a palette of sound. 1508 01:33:38,012 --> 01:33:39,639 It would be as if a painter said, 1509 01:33:39,780 --> 01:33:42,613 "Well OK, I'm going to go and paint this field over here 1510 01:33:42,750 --> 01:33:45,116 and these are the colors I'm going to take with me." 1511 01:33:49,423 --> 01:33:53,689 Implicit in the piece is the idea of the world as a dream. 1512 01:33:54,195 --> 01:33:56,356 As soon as I saw a model, I saw that, 1513 01:33:56,497 --> 01:34:01,491 This was a set in which a dream could be quite comfortable. 1514 01:34:02,870 --> 01:34:04,201 The way it moves. 1515 01:34:04,505 --> 01:34:06,200 The way it moves with the music. 1516 01:34:06,340 --> 01:34:10,834 It's even more interesting than it was conceived. 1517 01:34:37,872 --> 01:34:39,772 Collaboration with Guy was good because 1518 01:34:39,907 --> 01:34:42,341 he knows the music, he understands music, 1519 01:34:42,510 --> 01:34:46,913 he was able to play the set as a musical instrument. 1520 01:34:48,015 --> 01:34:49,949 And that's exactly what I wanted because 1521 01:34:50,084 --> 01:34:53,850 with Phil's music it's important that the set 1522 01:34:53,988 --> 01:34:56,320 becomes part of the music. 1523 01:35:01,262 --> 01:35:02,923 Dennis, how does the second act look? 1524 01:35:03,831 --> 01:35:04,297 How's it coming along? 1525 01:35:04,432 --> 01:35:06,297 Well it sounds very good. 1526 01:35:06,434 --> 01:35:07,230 The one issue we're going to have is 1527 01:35:07,368 --> 01:35:11,634 the pronunciation of the word "Barbarian." 1528 01:35:11,772 --> 01:35:13,672 You have to decide whether you want 1529 01:35:13,808 --> 01:35:16,538 the word to be "ba-BAR-ian" or "bar-BER-ian"? 1530 01:35:16,677 --> 01:35:17,666 "bar-BER-ian" 1531 01:35:17,845 --> 01:35:19,369 OK. Then, I think, for the chorus 1532 01:35:19,513 --> 01:35:21,071 we're going to change the spelling of the word. 1533 01:35:21,215 --> 01:35:21,909 OK. To what? 1534 01:35:22,049 --> 01:35:27,817 We'll put it, "bar-(BER)," in parentheses. 1535 01:35:27,955 --> 01:35:31,356 Because when they see it, especially Europeans, 1536 01:35:31,492 --> 01:35:33,426 they'll see "bar-BAR-ians." 1537 01:35:33,561 --> 01:35:38,021 When you start this rhythmical repetition of the word, 1538 01:35:38,766 --> 01:35:40,097 I don't think there's any point in 1539 01:35:40,234 --> 01:35:44,398 trying to have them say "ba ba barr," "ba ba barr." 1540 01:35:44,538 --> 01:35:46,506 I would just keep it "ba ba ba ba" 1541 01:35:46,640 --> 01:35:49,837 -until the word "Barbarian" -comes out. OK. 1542 01:35:49,977 --> 01:35:52,969 I would get rid of the "r" you know what I'm saying? 1543 01:35:53,114 --> 01:35:54,012 Yeah. 1544 01:35:54,281 --> 01:35:58,149 You're making something -I don't think frankly 1545 01:35:58,285 --> 01:36:02,187 -is going to be heard. 1546 01:37:04,852 --> 01:37:06,479 There's Daddy. Hi Daddy! 1547 01:37:06,620 --> 01:37:07,484 Hi. 1548 01:37:07,655 --> 01:37:08,952 Dada. 1549 01:37:09,423 --> 01:37:12,517 Can I see the key-ano? 1550 01:37:12,960 --> 01:37:14,621 Yeah, you want to see the piano? 1551 01:37:15,696 --> 01:37:16,754 That's it. 1552 01:37:16,964 --> 01:37:19,057 That's it! The key-ano! 1553 01:37:19,200 --> 01:37:20,633 Can I hear the key-ano? 1554 01:37:20,768 --> 01:37:22,201 Can he hear the key-ano? 1555 01:37:22,436 --> 01:37:24,666 OK, I'll go play it. 1556 01:37:25,306 --> 01:37:27,866 Scott will hold it. 1557 01:37:27,975 --> 01:37:28,839 OK. 1558 01:37:36,884 --> 01:37:37,851 Can you hear it? 1559 01:37:43,457 --> 01:37:44,253 Thank you Daddy. 1560 01:37:44,391 --> 01:37:44,914 You're welcome. 1561 01:37:45,059 --> 01:37:46,117 Want to hear my key-ano? 1562 01:37:46,260 --> 01:37:47,591 Yeah, let me hear your piano. 1563 01:37:54,335 --> 01:37:55,267 Very good. 1564 01:37:57,238 --> 01:37:58,330 What did you think Daddy? 1565 01:37:58,472 --> 01:37:59,200 Shall we say goodbye? 1566 01:37:59,340 --> 01:38:01,900 Let's say goodbye. And I'm going to call you tonight. 1567 01:38:02,009 --> 01:38:03,237 -No. No. No! -OK. 1568 01:38:03,844 --> 01:38:06,642 Yes, it's time to go. 1569 01:38:09,617 --> 01:38:10,413 Say goodbye to Daddy. 1570 01:38:10,551 --> 01:38:11,518 Say goodbye. 1571 01:38:12,820 --> 01:38:13,309 Daddy! 1572 01:38:13,454 --> 01:38:14,751 I'll see you later! 1573 01:38:14,889 --> 01:38:16,083 See you later. 1574 01:38:20,294 --> 01:38:22,489 I think, that people are attracted to the piece 1575 01:38:22,630 --> 01:38:24,860 because it appears to be about a very good 1576 01:38:24,999 --> 01:38:26,091 man and a very bad man. 1577 01:38:26,600 --> 01:38:29,626 This humanitarian, the compassionate person. 1578 01:38:29,770 --> 01:38:30,964 And then there's the person 1579 01:38:31,105 --> 01:38:33,198 who represents the state and state terrorism. 1580 01:38:33,340 --> 01:38:36,434 He laid three girls in two hours. 1581 01:38:36,577 --> 01:38:37,737 Yes. He's so weak. He's so weak. 1582 01:38:37,878 --> 01:38:38,970 And you didn't even have a drink! 1583 01:38:39,113 --> 01:38:40,637 -I didn't. -He had a coffee! 1584 01:38:46,287 --> 01:38:48,380 It's very easy to get the enthusiasm of an audience 1585 01:38:48,522 --> 01:38:49,648 when you provide them 1586 01:38:49,790 --> 01:38:51,451 with the alternatives of the good and the bad. 1587 01:38:51,592 --> 01:38:53,583 We all know what side we pick. 1588 01:38:58,098 --> 01:39:00,965 The good things or the bad things we invent those. 1589 01:39:01,902 --> 01:39:04,530 The more enduring and the harder reality is 1590 01:39:04,672 --> 01:39:07,402 between what we imagine and what is real. 1591 01:39:15,849 --> 01:39:17,510 Good and bad are constructions - 1592 01:39:17,651 --> 01:39:18,709 they're fabrications. 1593 01:39:19,119 --> 01:39:20,518 Dreaming and the quality of being awake 1594 01:39:20,654 --> 01:39:24,590 aren't fabrications those are the conditions of our life. 1595 01:39:47,047 --> 01:39:56,445 No! No, no, no, no! No! 1596 01:39:56,557 --> 01:39:57,524 Silence! 1597 01:39:59,393 --> 01:40:11,635 I remain the Magistrate responsible for justice in this town. 1598 01:40:18,145 --> 01:40:19,840 No one imagined in the fifties that 1599 01:40:19,980 --> 01:40:22,312 1984 would actually come about more quickly 1600 01:40:22,449 --> 01:40:23,916 than the title suggested. 1601 01:40:24,518 --> 01:40:28,010 And in a funny way, I think, John Coetzee did a similar thing. 1602 01:40:30,157 --> 01:40:35,789 In 1990, a book about an empire which begins a pre-emptive war - 1603 01:40:36,563 --> 01:40:38,121 who had ever heard of such a thing! 1604 01:40:40,200 --> 01:40:43,101 By 2001, Coetzee seemed to have written a book about 1605 01:40:43,237 --> 01:40:44,534 the world that we lived in. 1606 01:40:57,918 --> 01:40:59,317 Vacations are hard. 1607 01:41:00,154 --> 01:41:03,817 Philip doesn't really vacation. He works. 1608 01:41:04,792 --> 01:41:06,350 They're always working vacations. 1609 01:41:08,629 --> 01:41:10,620 And for him it's not work, it's what he does. 1610 01:41:11,832 --> 01:41:12,890 Simply, what he does. 1611 01:41:13,700 --> 01:41:15,065 Each one of his teachers, I think, 1612 01:41:15,202 --> 01:41:19,969 has told him that music is an extremely high form of an offering. 1613 01:41:20,574 --> 01:41:22,701 So, I think, it has given him permission 1614 01:41:22,943 --> 01:41:24,934 to spend a lot of time doing what he does. 1615 01:41:25,079 --> 01:41:27,104 I'm still going to be writing the Symphony. 1616 01:41:27,915 --> 01:41:29,746 It's never been viewed that way by me. 1617 01:41:30,784 --> 01:41:33,582 My interest in music has been more personal, 1618 01:41:33,720 --> 01:41:35,051 and I would say obsessive. 1619 01:41:36,590 --> 01:41:38,455 My motivation is for personal reasons. 1620 01:41:38,592 --> 01:41:41,425 I'm not thinking of bringing happiness to humanity, 1621 01:41:41,562 --> 01:41:43,587 or anything like that, or peace of mind. 1622 01:41:43,831 --> 01:41:44,798 It never occurs to me. 1623 01:41:45,732 --> 01:41:47,723 I'm just trying write a piece of music and play it. 1624 01:41:56,343 --> 01:41:57,970 I'm a wife with a new, 1625 01:41:58,112 --> 01:42:04,244 young family and it's hard to live with someone 1626 01:42:04,384 --> 01:42:06,284 who's writing three scores at the same time. 1627 01:42:09,690 --> 01:42:10,782 But, at the same time, 1628 01:42:10,924 --> 01:42:12,755 you love this person and they're thriving. 1629 01:42:15,696 --> 01:42:18,494 So, you want what's best for them, 1630 01:42:19,066 --> 01:42:22,035 but you also want what is best for you. You know. 1631 01:42:25,072 --> 01:42:26,505 My older son is four-and-a-half and, 1632 01:42:26,640 --> 01:42:28,665 I think, for about four years 1633 01:42:29,143 --> 01:42:32,203 I haven't been so pleasant to be around. 1634 01:42:37,584 --> 01:42:40,553 So, our paths have diverged. 1635 01:42:52,833 --> 01:42:56,166 Which is hard to talk about. 1636 01:42:56,303 --> 01:42:58,134 It's new. It's fresh. 1637 01:42:59,306 --> 01:43:01,706 We have a lot of love for each other, 1638 01:43:03,010 --> 01:43:08,312 but we are wanting different things out of 1639 01:43:08,448 --> 01:43:10,075 our lives at this point. 1640 01:43:39,313 --> 01:43:40,974 He has so many different aspects of his life. 1641 01:43:41,081 --> 01:43:44,710 But I see now, more profoundly than ever before, 1642 01:43:45,586 --> 01:43:53,721 that music is his underlying passion for absolutely everything he does. 1643 01:43:59,399 --> 01:44:04,735 I think, for Philip music is his therapy, 1644 01:44:04,972 --> 01:44:07,065 His conversation, 1645 01:44:07,207 --> 01:44:15,478 his place to be when he can't talk about what it is he's feeling. 1646 01:44:19,319 --> 01:44:21,787 You can listen to it and get what you want, 1647 01:44:21,922 --> 01:44:24,447 but I get everything he's unable to say 1648 01:44:24,691 --> 01:44:25,851 or or can't communicate. 1649 01:44:27,361 --> 01:44:28,953 It's all there in the music. 1650 01:44:29,863 --> 01:44:32,093 It's his language. 1651 01:44:36,837 --> 01:44:41,069 I think, this is his finest communication. 1652 01:45:07,100 --> 01:45:08,829 So, it worked for a while. 1653 01:45:11,371 --> 01:45:13,396 I think, Philip needs a lot of support. 1654 01:45:13,540 --> 01:45:15,007 He's happy to have support. 1655 01:45:16,143 --> 01:45:19,374 I'm sure it is a very lonely world 1656 01:45:19,479 --> 01:45:21,413 writing as much music as he does. 1657 01:45:22,549 --> 01:45:24,642 I think, he enjoyed sharing it with somebody. 1658 01:45:31,358 --> 01:45:32,347 Come in. I need to know your email password 1659 01:45:32,492 --> 01:45:33,925 and your computer password. 1660 01:45:34,494 --> 01:45:35,688 I have no idea. 1661 01:45:36,063 --> 01:45:37,997 OK. There's someone downstairs. 1662 01:45:38,131 --> 01:45:38,597 Frankie. 1663 01:45:38,732 --> 01:45:39,221 What? 1664 01:45:39,366 --> 01:45:40,799 Frankie is one. 1665 01:45:42,069 --> 01:45:43,934 That's my computer password. 1666 01:45:44,671 --> 01:45:45,535 OK. 1667 01:45:45,739 --> 01:45:47,866 And I don't know my email password. 1668 01:45:47,974 --> 01:45:49,441 It might be Frankie also. 1669 01:45:49,710 --> 01:45:50,642 That may be. OK, I'll try that. 1670 01:45:50,777 --> 01:45:51,801 OK. 1671 01:46:10,697 --> 01:46:13,188 Now you all know my computer password! 1672 01:46:17,637 --> 01:46:18,934 Show us where the bridges are. 1673 01:46:24,010 --> 01:46:25,637 Wait for me! Wait for me! 1674 01:46:33,920 --> 01:46:36,047 Oh! It's rough out there. 1675 01:47:10,223 --> 01:47:11,121 I thank you. 1676 01:47:13,593 --> 01:47:15,322 That's for you, if you like it. 1677 01:47:17,097 --> 01:47:17,859 And this is Christopher Hampton. 1678 01:47:17,998 --> 01:47:18,930 Yes. 1679 01:47:19,433 --> 01:47:19,990 Hello. 1680 01:47:20,133 --> 01:47:21,157 That's not real! 1681 01:47:21,301 --> 01:47:22,962 I know! I'm not ready. 1682 01:47:23,703 --> 01:47:24,169 Here. 1683 01:47:24,304 --> 01:47:25,236 Thank you. 1684 01:47:29,676 --> 01:47:30,540 Oh, look at this. 1685 01:47:30,677 --> 01:47:31,644 It's a ladybug for good luck! 1686 01:47:31,778 --> 01:47:33,143 Yeah, it is a ladybug. 1687 01:47:33,814 --> 01:47:34,746 Thank you very much. 1688 01:47:35,015 --> 01:47:35,504 Have a good show. 1689 01:47:35,649 --> 01:47:36,274 OK, I will. 1690 01:47:36,416 --> 01:47:37,610 -It's great to have you here. -Have fun. 1691 01:47:40,754 --> 01:47:41,721 Hey, here's everybody! 1692 01:47:41,855 --> 01:47:43,220 Good. Let's go into the theatre. 1693 01:47:43,757 --> 01:47:44,917 OK. Have fun. 1694 01:47:45,058 --> 01:47:47,049 -It's a great piece. -OK. Good. Thank you. 1695 01:47:47,194 --> 01:47:48,161 You're welcome. Enjoy. 1696 01:47:48,295 --> 01:47:49,455 Good. I will. 1697 01:48:20,927 --> 01:48:21,723 Someone asked me recently, 1698 01:48:21,862 --> 01:48:23,727 what is the most interesting scene in the opera? 1699 01:48:23,864 --> 01:48:25,058 And, I think, the most interesting scene is 1700 01:48:25,198 --> 01:48:26,529 the very last scene. 1701 01:49:06,506 --> 01:49:06,835 He says, 1702 01:49:06,973 --> 01:49:08,600 "Now that the Barbarians are at the gate, 1703 01:49:08,875 --> 01:49:10,502 maybe it's time for me to tell the truth." 1704 01:49:25,225 --> 01:49:26,590 Well, what is the truth? 1705 01:49:26,726 --> 01:49:28,523 And he doesn't make you wait so long, 1706 01:49:28,995 --> 01:49:32,226 he says, "l am a man walking down a road, 1707 01:49:32,365 --> 01:49:33,559 a road that goes nowhere." 1708 01:50:04,397 --> 01:50:05,455 And then he says... 1709 01:50:07,133 --> 01:50:08,361 Oh, I'm sorry. Is that me? 1710 01:50:08,668 --> 01:50:09,760 You can answer it. 1711 01:50:16,676 --> 01:50:17,700 Let me turn it off. 1712 01:50:20,013 --> 01:50:22,140 You can take it if you want to. 1713 01:50:22,282 --> 01:50:25,308 No! That's someone from Hollywood. 1714 01:50:30,323 --> 01:50:31,381 I don't want to talk to her! 1715 01:50:32,559 --> 01:50:35,050 And he says, this other astonishing thing, 1716 01:50:35,195 --> 01:50:38,961 "I'm a man on a road that goes nowhere." 1717 01:50:39,432 --> 01:50:40,626 And then a few minutes later- 1718 01:50:40,767 --> 01:50:44,931 and this is the very last line in the opera he says, 1719 01:50:45,071 --> 01:50:49,633 "I'm a man caught in an ugly and stupid dream." 1720 01:50:50,443 --> 01:50:54,641 Is that what the opera's about? 1721 01:50:55,248 --> 01:50:57,341 And, I think, that's what the opera's about! 1722 01:50:59,252 --> 01:51:01,277 The reason he feels he's caught in a dream 1723 01:51:01,588 --> 01:51:03,249 is because he is caught in a dream! 1724 01:51:04,124 --> 01:51:07,025 And when people say, "l feel like I'm dreaming." 1725 01:51:07,560 --> 01:51:08,959 The reason they feel like they're dreaming 1726 01:51:09,162 --> 01:51:10,220 is that they are dreaming! 1727 01:51:10,497 --> 01:51:12,362 It's a very simple thing. 1728 01:51:12,532 --> 01:51:14,500 Dreaming can be a fact of our life. 1729 01:51:24,544 --> 01:51:33,452 I am a man travelling down a road, 1730 01:51:33,586 --> 01:51:38,614 which may lead nowhere. 1731 01:51:47,867 --> 01:51:57,174 A man lost in a cruel and stupid dream. 1732 01:51:58,945 --> 01:52:04,178 And still I keep walking. 1733 01:52:08,755 --> 01:52:11,223 Walking... 1734 01:52:13,793 --> 01:52:15,385 I have a friend who's a writer, 1735 01:52:16,029 --> 01:52:18,725 and he says his writing is the antidote to 1736 01:52:18,865 --> 01:52:20,696 the chaos of the world around him. 1737 01:52:21,801 --> 01:52:24,099 And, I think, that's a good description. 1738 01:52:28,174 --> 01:52:29,641 He retreats into that world. 1739 01:52:31,611 --> 01:52:34,273 That becomes more important than the world he sees. 1740 01:52:35,448 --> 01:52:39,817 I suppose some people might not think 1741 01:52:39,953 --> 01:52:41,352 that's such a great thing, 1742 01:52:41,788 --> 01:52:42,777 but he thinks it is. 1743 01:52:45,258 --> 01:52:45,781 It's all real - 1744 01:52:45,925 --> 01:52:49,793 it's just what you choose to establish as the core of your being. 1745 01:52:50,363 --> 01:52:54,629 He makes the core of his life an act of imagination. 1746 01:52:58,505 --> 01:53:00,200 Is it escape, or is it liberation? 1747 01:53:02,342 --> 01:53:03,172 I don't know. 1748 01:53:03,810 --> 01:53:05,437 You tell me I don't know. I have no idea. 1749 01:53:05,578 --> 01:53:07,136 I don't know anything about these things. 1750 01:53:09,949 --> 01:53:16,411 For him, that person, writing is the... 1751 01:53:20,627 --> 01:53:22,595 is the resolution of his life. 1752 01:53:23,463 --> 01:53:26,523 It makes his life solid and real. 1753 01:53:28,401 --> 01:53:33,270 Without that the world would overwhelm him with its chaos. 1754 01:53:34,107 --> 01:53:36,075 So, is it escape to become sane? 1755 01:53:37,110 --> 01:53:41,570 Or, is the insanity of the world... 1756 01:53:43,016 --> 01:53:45,849 So, which is the escape? I don't know! 1757 01:54:27,827 --> 01:54:29,260 They seemed not to have minded it too much! 1758 01:54:29,796 --> 01:54:30,421 Yeah. 1759 01:55:03,630 --> 01:55:04,927 I mean, I can't tell. 1760 01:55:05,131 --> 01:55:05,756 They seemed to like it. 1761 01:55:05,899 --> 01:55:07,230 Oh they, they were into it. 1762 01:55:07,800 --> 01:55:08,198 You can tell. 1763 01:55:08,334 --> 01:55:10,199 I can feel it on the back of my neck.